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Author Topic: Brutal Honesty in Lessons  (Read 9579 times)
elisedance
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« Reply #75 on: January 09, 2011, 07:11:48 AM »

I really want to tell one of the students in my class to shut the  Lips sealed up!

is there a polite way to say it. Roll Eyes

Time for a little sarcasm.  "Hey, Darrel, do you want to teach the class or learn from it?"
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phoenix13
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« Reply #76 on: May 15, 2013, 01:57:34 PM »

I think there has to be a balance. I believe that you need to talk with your teacher about what approach would be best. as we now have moved up to another level we have to hear things that perhaps aren't what we would want to hear. also it is our mney, if the techer does not fix things we are wasting our money.

So we have given our teacher permission to be stricter not nastier Cool.

ie. he should not be delicate about shaping as we should already be doing it and know we have to be consistent.

Agreed.

I have to interject, also, that I have seen quite a few ballroom teachers "hog-tied" by the requirement that they be "nice" to their students -- basically stroke their students' egos.  These were not independent instructors, mind you.   These were teachers at a franchise studio who had to walk a very fine line with their students.

Brutal honesty absolutely would not fly, in their case, at least not if they ran the risk of having students complain about them.
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elisedance
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« Reply #77 on: May 16, 2013, 01:31:56 AM »

We need critique to provide us with a realistic idea of where we are and to set achievable goals.  I think that true brutal honesty, which is telling us exactly where we are with respect to the world of dance and how much we have to do to become perfect (world champions) would do neither - we would all be awful and have impossible goals.  The art of teaching IMO is to identify the most important thing to improve for development towards perfection at that time. 

However, if brutal honesty means telling me the truth rather than sugar coating it, I want it always.   
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phoenix13
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« Reply #78 on: May 16, 2013, 05:25:35 AM »

Yep.  Cool

f course, there are always those folks who say they want the truth, when what they actually want is only the good parts of the truth. lol. And then there are the people for whom truth is a super motivator and the other people for whom too much truth demotivates.  I'm so, so glad I'm not a dance teacher.   They have to somehow deal with all of the above, adjusting to each.
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Bordertangoman
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« Reply #79 on: May 16, 2013, 11:10:36 AM »

Yep.  Cool

f course, there are always those folks who say they want the truth, when what they actually want is only the good parts of the truth. lol. And then there are the people for whom truth is a super motivator and the other people for whom too much truth demotivates.  I'm so, so glad I'm not a dance teacher.   They have to somehow deal with all of the above, adjusting to each.

make 'em Knurd
knurd   "The opposite of being drunk, its as sober as you can ever be. It strips away all the illusion, all the comforting pink fog in which people normally spend their lives, and lets them see and think clearly for the first time ever. Then, after they've screamed a bit, they make sure they never get knurd again" - Terry Pratchett
"If I drink any more coffee I risk being knurd."
 
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phoenix13
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« Reply #80 on: May 16, 2013, 11:19:45 AM »

Love it!  Knurd.  


That's where I am right now in dance and in life.  Not sure I'd ever volunteer to do this again, but it's really good for me ... or so I keep telling myself.

And as it pertains to dance specifically, I think that sometimes, people pride themselves on the ability to create that knurd feeling in others, not realizing that being knurd may be too much to take.  If I were to be abruptly disabused of ALL of my dance illusions/delusions, then what the heck would be the point of continuing?

I'm old, not particularly well-coordinated and singularly lacking in talent.  Great.  Now get on with the lesson? Mmmm not exactly.  Undecided  Lie to me, at least a little.  Grin
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Bordertangoman
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« Reply #81 on: May 16, 2013, 11:30:51 AM »

Love it!  Knurd.  


That's where I am right now in dance and in life.  Not sure I'd ever volunteer to do this again, but it's really good for me ... or so I keep telling myself.

And as it pertains to dance specifically, I think that sometimes, people pride themselves on the ability to create that knurd feeling in others, not realizing that being knurd may be too much to take.  If I were to be abruptly disabused of ALL of my dance illusions/delusions, then what the heck would be the point of continuing?

I'm old, not particularly well-coordinated and singularly lacking in talent.  Great.  Now get on with the lesson? Mmmm not exactly.  Undecided  Lie to me, at least a little.  Grin

I agree with this. I try to give people one thing to change at a time; ie its aposture. changing body habits is hard, as we can't see them and what our body feels its used to it decides is normal, so move it and it feels unblanced.
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”We need a witness to our lives.  There's a billion people on the planet, what does any one life really mean? But in a marriage, you're promising to care about everything.  The good things, the bad things, the terrible things, the mundane things, all of it, all of the time, every day. "
elisedance
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« Reply #82 on: May 16, 2013, 11:59:38 AM »

I truly think you have hit upon my fundamental 'problem'.  I have congenital hyperknurditis.  Its an incurable disorder where you are stuck in knurdom and the only way out is to play a violin or dance.  Not because you stop knurding but because your mind is distracted from its worst traits - judging the idiots that surround you and facing up to the fact that live is actually a pastiche of lies. 
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elisedance
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« Reply #83 on: May 16, 2013, 12:00:00 PM »

My, I'm beginning to sound like the BTM guru...
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phoenix13
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« Reply #84 on: May 24, 2013, 07:46:00 PM »

I truly think you have hit upon my fundamental 'problem'.  I have congenital hyperknurditis.  Its an incurable disorder where you are stuck in knurdom and the only way out is to play a violin or dance.  Not because you stop knurding but because your mind is distracted from its worst traits - judging the idiots that surround you and facing up to the fact that live is actually a pastiche of lies. 

I think that absolute honesty is overrated. I also think that *sometimes* it's more about the ego of the giver of feedback than about really trying to help the recipient.
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elisedance
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« Reply #85 on: May 24, 2013, 10:34:42 PM »

I truly think you have hit upon my fundamental 'problem'.  I have congenital hyperknurditis.  Its an incurable disorder where you are stuck in knurdom and the only way out is to play a violin or dance.  Not because you stop knurding but because your mind is distracted from its worst traits - judging the idiots that surround you and facing up to the fact that live is actually a pastiche of lies. 

I think that absolute honesty is overrated. I also think that *sometimes* it's more about the ego of the giver of feedback than about really trying to help the recipient.
then thats not absolute honesty is it?  its actually 'here's me showing off!' Smiley
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phoenix13
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« Reply #86 on: May 24, 2013, 10:59:22 PM »

I have fallen into the honesty/ego trap before, which is why I would say that no, it's not necessarily about showing off.  It can be about my own self-deception.  I tell myself that  I'm telling someone else "the truth" for "their own good," when I'm actually unloading my stuff so that I fit my self image  (or other things that are self-serving upon close self-examination.)  If I do that, then it's about me, not about them.

I also think that it's possible to ask for "honesty" for a bunch of different reasons, not all of which have anything to do with wanting to know the truth, whatever truth is.

I think that "honesty" has to be seen through the lens of what's truly good for myself/others in order for it to be a good thing.  Nothing to do with dance.  Just my preferences from having been on the planet a long time. Cool

In the context of dance, let's just say that my footwork is truly abysmal. Assuming that's an objective truth (a big assumption)  there may be no point in telling me, if I'm a dancer who doesn't care.  It may be demoralizing to me, if  I'm a sensitive soul.  Or it may be just the right/motivational thing, if I'm looking to improve and am strong enough to hear it.

I don't believe that brutal honesty is always the right, most effective thing.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2013, 11:01:09 PM by phoenix13 » Logged

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« Reply #87 on: May 25, 2013, 01:21:39 AM »

well honesty is an interesting one, if you are a dance teacher and someone new comes in and says how do you think I will go ...and you are being brutally honest and say well your dancing is SH1T then I dont think  they will be back. If you say I can see possibilities with your dancing and you know it is a journey and I am happy to go on the journey with you. I think they may stick around.
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phoenix13
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« Reply #88 on: May 25, 2013, 07:38:39 AM »

Exactly.  Honesty and tactlessness are not the same thing.
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elisedance
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« Reply #89 on: May 25, 2013, 02:17:13 PM »

Exactly.  Honesty and tactlessness are not the same thing.
definitely.  But this topic is not about honesty per se, I mean you can be honest by not saying anything, but about 'brutal honesty' which I think we all take as 'stating what you think regardless of its outcome.  You can't be brutally honest about something the person listening to will easily agree with.  Thus, I think it acutally implies being tactless.
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