partnerdanceonline.com
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
July 22, 2014, 08:32:47 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
A lot of people are visiting Smiley Smiley
Undecided Undecided but not many are posting....
please say hi Cheesy
116383 Posts in 1855 Topics by 221 Members
Latest Member: EVE_Dance
* Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
+  partnerdanceonline.com
|-+  Partner Dancing
| |-+  Dancesport
| | |-+  General dancesport issues (Moderators: QPO, Rugby)
| | | |-+  Brutal Honesty in Lessons
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] Print
Author Topic: Brutal Honesty in Lessons  (Read 8572 times)
phoenix13
Gold
***
Posts: 3359



« Reply #90 on: May 25, 2013, 02:43:32 PM »

Hmm.  Interesting.  I disagree, of course. lol.  But interesting.  I think it's possible to be honest and kind at the same time.  Sometimes the truth hurts, but, to me, that's not the same thing as delivering the truth in a deliberately or thoughtlessly hurtful way.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 03:29:17 PM by phoenix13 » Logged

Dona nobis pacem.
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 34976


ee


« Reply #91 on: May 25, 2013, 04:12:34 PM »

Hmm.  Interesting.  I disagree, of course. lol.  But interesting.  I think it's possible to be honest and kind at the same time.  Sometimes the truth hurts, but, to me, that's not the same thing as delivering the truth in a deliberately or thoughtlessly hurtful way.
I suppose 'brutal' can be read that way - indeed thats what the word means by itself.  But do you understand 'brutally honest' as meaning willfully hurtful?  I don't.  I see it as telling the absolute truth without compromise for feelings; certainly not telling the truth in such as way as to hurt someone.
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Bordertangoman
Gold Star
***
Posts: 6088



« Reply #92 on: June 26, 2013, 10:44:02 AM »

My, I'm beginning to sound like the BTM guru...

I'm not sure if i should offer congratulations or comiserations.. Undecided
Logged

”We need a witness to our lives.  There's a billion people on the planet, what does any one life really mean? But in a marriage, you're promising to care about everything.  The good things, the bad things, the terrible things, the mundane things, all of it, all of the time, every day. "
Bordertangoman
Gold Star
***
Posts: 6088



« Reply #93 on: June 26, 2013, 10:51:08 AM »

Hmm.  Interesting.  I disagree, of course. lol.  But interesting.  I think it's possible to be honest and kind at the same time.  Sometimes the truth hurts, but, to me, that's not the same thing as delivering the truth in a deliberately or thoughtlessly hurtful way.
I suppose 'brutal' can be read that way - indeed thats what the word means by itself.  But do you understand 'brutally honest' as meaning willfully hurtful?  I don't.  I see it as telling the absolute truth without compromise for feelings; certainly not telling the truth in such as way as to hurt someone.

I am more inclined to agree with Elise on this...in order to be brutally honest one must be able to discern what one observes in the other from what is evaluation.. its a pretty refined skill and I don't claim to have it.
we had a couple of visiting teachers and he was focussing on the content and she said something along the lines of "if your technique, posture, balance, etc is poor I will tell you directly. That's my style. I won't beat around the bush." (she is also a sports coach)
Logged

”We need a witness to our lives.  There's a billion people on the planet, what does any one life really mean? But in a marriage, you're promising to care about everything.  The good things, the bad things, the terrible things, the mundane things, all of it, all of the time, every day. "
phoenix13
Gold
***
Posts: 3359



« Reply #94 on: June 26, 2013, 11:00:40 AM »

Hmm.  Interesting.  I disagree, of course. lol.  But interesting.  I think it's possible to be honest and kind at the same time.  Sometimes the truth hurts, but, to me, that's not the same thing as delivering the truth in a deliberately or thoughtlessly hurtful way.
I suppose 'brutal' can be read that way - indeed thats what the word means by itself.  But do you understand 'brutally honest' as meaning willfully hurtful?  I don't.  I see it as telling the absolute truth without compromise for feelings; certainly not telling the truth in such as way as to hurt someone.

Hmm. I think that one often has to deliberately set out NOT to hurt someone in order not to come across as mean.

Probably belongs in a different thread, but IME, sometimes people's honesty is as much about their ego as about intending good to the recipient.

That's why I think that tact is needed.

"Do these pants make my butt look fat?"  Honest answer: yes.  But is that a kind, necessary or useful answer that gets to why the person asked the question in the first place?  Uhhh. No.  Maybe the person should have said, "Please reassure me that I am attractive."    But they didn't. They left themselves vulnerable to "honesty."

Same deal with dance lessons, IMV. "You're never going to be a world champion," is probably true for most of us but, IMV, it doesn't need to be said just because it's true.  I know that. No need to dent my ego just to reinforce your view of yourself as an "honest" person.
Logged

Dona nobis pacem.
phoenix13
Gold
***
Posts: 3359



« Reply #95 on: June 26, 2013, 11:11:35 AM »

Hmm.  Interesting.  I disagree, of course. lol.  But interesting.  I think it's possible to be honest and kind at the same time.  Sometimes the truth hurts, but, to me, that's not the same thing as delivering the truth in a deliberately or thoughtlessly hurtful way.
I suppose 'brutal' can be read that way - indeed thats what the word means by itself.  But do you understand 'brutally honest' as meaning willfully hurtful?  I don't.  I see it as telling the absolute truth without compromise for feelings; certainly not telling the truth in such as way as to hurt someone.
I am more inclined to agree with Elise on this...in order to be brutally honest one must be able to discern what one observes in the other from what is evaluation.. its a pretty refined skill and I don't claim to have it.
we had a couple of visiting teachers and he was focussing on the content and she said something along the lines of "if your technique, posture, balance, etc is poor I will tell you directly. That's my style. I won't beat around the bush." (she is also a sports coach)


I think that the problem with this, btm, is that skill is needed on both the giving and receiving ends. I've seen this approach backfire many times,when the giver of feedback was more "evolved" than the receiver.

The giver says [whatever]totally without judgment, but the receiver feels judged.

And then,of course,there are the times when the giver thinks they're more evolved than they really are, and they really are delivering judgment along with a seemingly innocent message...

That is why I think that the giver carries the burden of trying to give feedback in a way that it can be received.   If they insist on giving feedback in a way that's comfortable to them, then ...well ... they are at least partially responsible for the outcomes.  It's about effective  two-way conversation.

You try to talk to me; I try to listen to you.  Or vice versa.  A lot easier if everybody takes responsibility for their half.
Logged

Dona nobis pacem.
Bordertangoman
Gold Star
***
Posts: 6088



« Reply #96 on: June 27, 2013, 11:15:56 AM »

Hmm.  Interesting.  I disagree, of course. lol.  But interesting.  I think it's possible to be honest and kind at the same time.  Sometimes the truth hurts, but, to me, that's not the same thing as delivering the truth in a deliberately or thoughtlessly hurtful way.
I suppose 'brutal' can be read that way - indeed thats what the word means by itself.  But do you understand 'brutally honest' as meaning willfully hurtful?  I don't.  I see it as telling the absolute truth without compromise for feelings; certainly not telling the truth in such as way as to hurt someone.
I am more inclined to agree with Elise on this...in order to be brutally honest one must be able to discern what one observes in the other from what is evaluation.. its a pretty refined skill and I don't claim to have it.
we had a couple of visiting teachers and he was focussing on the content and she said something along the lines of "if your technique, posture, balance, etc is poor I will tell you directly. That's my style. I won't beat around the bush." (she is also a sports coach)


I think that the problem with this, btm, is that skill is needed on both the giving and receiving ends. I've seen this approach backfire many times,when the giver of feedback was more "evolved" than the receiver.

The giver says [whatever]totally without judgment, but the receiver feels judged.

And then,of course,there are the times when the giver thinks they're more evolved than they really are, and they really are delivering judgment along with a seemingly innocent message...

That is why I think that the giver carries the burden of trying to give feedback in a way that it can be received.   If they insist on giving feedback in a way that's comfortable to them, then ...well ... they are at least partially responsible for the outcomes.  It's about effective  two-way conversation.

You try to talk to me; I try to listen to you.  Or vice versa.  A lot easier if everybody takes responsibility for their half.

there are specific ways of improving this for example:

"would you tell me what you heard me say." quite often the other person is 'interpreting ' what we say, and if we hear that we can clarify or correct any incorrect assumptions they are making. and we can keep asking until we feel that they have heard what we inteneded.
Logged

”We need a witness to our lives.  There's a billion people on the planet, what does any one life really mean? But in a marriage, you're promising to care about everything.  The good things, the bad things, the terrible things, the mundane things, all of it, all of the time, every day. "
phoenix13
Gold
***
Posts: 3359



« Reply #97 on: June 27, 2013, 12:48:25 PM »

Agreed. Smiley

My only points are that honesty and truth are often subjective and that givers of honesty are just as likely to be guilty of faux pas as receivers.
Logged

Dona nobis pacem.
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 34976


ee


« Reply #98 on: March 09, 2014, 11:52:15 AM »

I'm not sure there is such a thing as 'brutal honesty'.  There's just Honesty.  If its cruel, then it isn't honest.  If its Honest then how can it be brutal?  It just is.

I suppose the 'hard truth' is a better phrase because sometimes its difficult to face the facts...
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
QPO
Moderator
Continental Champion
****
Posts: 20804


Adelaide South Australia


« Reply #99 on: March 09, 2014, 10:11:40 PM »

I think that it is all in the delivery.... You cant say that was CRAP and you are useless....you could say, well that was not the best I have seen you do and you have room for improvement.  Even if someone asks for honesty you still need to deliver it diplomatically...IMO
Logged

Dance is a delicate balance between perfection and beauty.  ~Author Unknown
Dance Forum
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 34976


ee


« Reply #100 on: March 09, 2014, 10:53:03 PM »

I think that it is all in the delivery.... You cant say that was CRAP and you are useless....you could say, well that was not the best I have seen you do and you have room for improvement.  Even if someone asks for honesty you still need to deliver it diplomatically...IMO
exactly.
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!