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Author Topic: syllabus to 'open' routines....  (Read 1991 times)
ZPomeroy
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« on: November 01, 2009, 07:45:59 AM »

[this comes from the 'Results of PDOers' board where I mentioned that we need to upgrade our routines and zac asked: ...]

Doyou have restrictions on steps int he level yuo are in?

Zac
« Last Edit: November 01, 2009, 09:11:05 AM by elisedance » Logged

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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2009, 08:01:29 AM »

nope not any more - pre-championship is championship for couples that might kill each other as they have just learned open routines Smiley  We can also 'dance up' into championsihp and will do so once we feel comfortable in our routines - and are no longer a hazzard on the floor Smiley.
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ZPomeroy
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« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2009, 08:05:43 AM »

So ifyou feel your routines are lacking are you able to chenge them yourself or would you prefer waiting for your teacher? i know sometime teachers dont see how students feel about their routines and just assume its fine without understanding what the couple like. Sometimes i think its a good experience to make  competition routine as  couple firstly to promote compramise as your not both going to like the same steps nd secondly it makes you think about what your partner must do, giving the couple a greater understanding of one another and the dancing in general.

Zac
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elisedance
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« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2009, 09:20:37 AM »

Its rather the opposite for us: we made the routines ourselves.  Initially we put a few open steps into our gold routine and then eventually changed whole sides.  The result has worked pretty well for waltz and FT I think but I think we need help with tango and QS.  Routines are great for learning steps that you can do together - IMO in practise on a crowded floor (we had 8 couples on a small floor yesterday) one can not rely on routines for used for whole sides (with the exception perhaps of QS where its hard to get into or out of the middle of a side).  As I see it, routines are a great way it means the lead knows which step sequences he can lead and the follow will have a good chance of following Wink  I actually think that a higher level of dancing is to do just that - learn specific step sequences and put them in whereever you like.  Ultimately I suppose the lead can lead any step in any sequence and the couple will perform it perfectly - the benefit to floor craft is obvious Smiley
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catsmeow
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« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2009, 09:04:31 PM »

ED I have to agree with you about using step sequences instead of planned whole floor routines. Developing those escape routes has been one of the reasons my partner and I have not yet competed. Gradually we are building up a repertoire of alternate openings and endings but it gobbles up time and lessons. Hope to see you on the floor soon.
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elisedance
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« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2009, 09:39:22 PM »

we're keeping a spot warm for you Smiley
Maybe we can sort of gany up on the little guy thats being a bit of a bully - they can get away with it because I think tall people are always blamed for collisions Undecided
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catsmeow
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« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2009, 08:09:21 PM »

ED : I have not heard about the little bully. can you pm the details?
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samina
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« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2009, 08:35:56 PM »

ED I have to agree with you about using step sequences instead of planned whole floor routines. Developing those escape routes has been one of the reasons my partner and I have not yet competed. Gradually we are building up a repertoire of alternate openings and endings but it gobbles up time and lessons. Hope to see you on the floor soon.
a very experienced dancer friend calls this "hidden choreography", where the couple works on various pattern sequences, allowing the leader to interject them as he sees fit while the couple has still practiced the segments very well. i think it's a smart approach.
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elisedance
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« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2009, 10:45:16 PM »

sure is - it works if the lead is secure enough to move semlessly from one sequence to the next.  I think thats what the top dancers are actually doing and thats why they never seem to get in each other's way
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ttd
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« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2011, 05:03:05 PM »

So - bringing this up - does the complexity matters for the open level?

I am now entering closed gold single dances for standard, hence I have closed gold routines (or rather my teacher has come up with new closed gold routines he plans to use with his students doing closed gold - but for now they're just for me). But since there is no such thing as closed gold scholarship, I enter open standard scholarship and of course, dancesport series events are completely open. So far I have done the open scholarship twice, and we have just used the closed gold routines in it. It was visible (as I was told) from spectator's point that what we were doing was considerably simpler than other couples. But does it matter to the judges? FTR, I wasn't last in the open scholarship.
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elisedance
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« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2011, 04:06:34 AM »

Good question.  The answer is that no, it does not matter an iota.  If you do closed routines with near perfect technique you will always win over someone doing open steps with imperfect technique.  People tend to move up to open too early - the whole purpose of syllabus is to give you the time to thoroughly learn dance movement.  Once you start open routines you have to focus much more of your time on learning steps and complexities and you really need to have those basics in place. 

That said we are talking about well trained judges who can tell the difference Tongue

So the answer really is competition dependent.  The above (correct) will certainly be true at big comps but I fear it is much less true at a lot of local competitions.  I'd strongly recommend forgetting  about results for a while in schollarship comps and just accept this period of training as a stepping stone to becoming a top competitor.
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samina
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« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2011, 08:43:31 AM »

I agree with elise, you can do well with syllabus routines in open if you're dancing them better overall than everyone else on the floor.

When I was competing,i won open and dancesport series events with silver routines. With "silver syllabus dancing" meant by "routines". And I wasn't that great of a dancer, either. It's all relative.

I think that someone dancing beautifully with silver could fare well in open.
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QPO
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« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2011, 09:01:29 PM »

I agree. Like Sam I also won an event doing a lower level routine while others were trying to be fancy!....and not pulling it off (quickstep)....I was always told about marcus hilton who won a world championship doing the simplest of foxtrot routines...but executing it to perfection.

We did that with the QS and  with all our routines only add a new more difficult steps one at a time to a routine, then when that is good we will add another bit.
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ttd
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« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2011, 03:40:04 PM »

Yeah, well. In theory it shouldn't matter, but in practice? Suppose we have two couples who're more or less evenly matched technique-wise, but one couple chooses to dance a bit more challenging choreography, and the other chooses not to take risks and dance simpler patterns. Which one should place higher in this scenario?
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elisedance
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« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2011, 06:32:26 PM »

The latter every time.  One might ask what then are complex steps for?  And the answer is that if you have two couples one that dance simple steps and the other complex and they both do them equally well - the latter will win.  However, you can not compensate for a lesser technique by a more complex step.

I know it sounds idealist - but its actually true.  Just look at an amateur couple competition - the winners are the ones with the mastery of basics who can apply this to complex steps.  The losers are usually couples who also dance complex steps but without the dance skills to pull it off.  The ones in the middle either dance complex steps well but not exceptionally or dance simple steps exceptionally. 
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