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Author Topic: 2nd again!  (Read 4895 times)
SwingWaltz
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« on: September 21, 2009, 10:04:15 AM »

We just danced in a major championship over the weekend, everything felt great, we felt confident walking on and off the floor, our dancing felt better than it's ever been, we had lots of fun....but the only "problem", we came 2nd again! I know it's a good result, especially out of a field of 33 couples and 4 rounds! The frustration is that since the beginning of the year, we've been getting either 2nd or 3rd, never a 1st! Everytime time, a different couple beats us. It would always be the same 6 or 7 couples in the final, but the 1st place has been handed out to several different couples, just NEVER us! How do we break through this wall? It's really frustrating at the moment!
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etp777
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« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2009, 10:10:11 AM »

Have you done any coachings with the judges that are placing yous econd?  Might help to get some idea from them of what is holding you back.  especially if it's same few judges every time.
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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2009, 10:18:42 AM »

We just danced in a major championship over the weekend, everything felt great, we felt confident walking on and off the floor, our dancing felt better than it's ever been, we had lots of fun....but the only "problem", we came 2nd again! I know it's a good result, especially out of a field of 33 couples and 4 rounds! The frustration is that since the beginning of the year, we've been getting either 2nd or 3rd, never a 1st! Everytime time, a different couple beats us. It would always be the same 6 or 7 couples in the final, but the 1st place has been handed out to several different couples, just NEVER us! How do we break through this wall? It's really frustrating at the moment!

the answer is simply to stick at it and not let it get you down.  In Australia could you approach a judge and ask?  I've done that here when I was particularly worried about something - as long as its off the floor (in the bar Smiley) it always recieved a positive and supportive reply.  Do you also have visiting coaches - outside superstars that visit your studio?  That is a great way to find out what eyou could do to rack up the dancing a notch.

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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2009, 09:19:48 PM »

We just danced in a major championship over the weekend, everything felt great, we felt confident walking on and off the floor, our dancing felt better than it's ever been, we had lots of fun....but the only "problem", we came 2nd again! I know it's a good result, especially out of a field of 33 couples and 4 rounds! The frustration is that since the beginning of the year, we've been getting either 2nd or 3rd, never a 1st! Everytime time, a different couple beats us. It would always be the same 6 or 7 couples in the final, but the 1st place has been handed out to several different couples, just NEVER us! How do we break through this wall? It's really frustrating at the moment!

It might be an idea to do some contemplating and ask yourself if you have been subconsciously programmed to get 2nd ever time. I have known several dancers that are programmed to get the result they get every time and it has gone on for years. They have gotten the same result every time they dance important competitions. Couples in front of them retire or split up and out of the blue comes a couple up from behind and beats them. Often couples are not even consciously aware they are programmed. They just don’t understand why they can’t move forward. If somebody told them they are programmed, they would just laugh at it. The fact that you are asking shows, that you are ready to make changes. Start you reprogramming today so that you are no longer get 2nd place. All the best with the first places that will soon come your way!!!

DSV
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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2009, 09:33:20 PM »

Interesting idea - I wonder if we are programmed for 10th Cheesy
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Some guy
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Posts: 1465


« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2009, 11:27:05 PM »

I've just found out how powerful "programming" can be.  Worth looking into SW.  Find out where your coaches ranked.
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MusicChica
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« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2009, 11:28:29 PM »

I'd definitely be interested in hearing more about this "programming" concept...
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Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2009, 11:36:13 PM »

I've just found out how powerful "programming" can be.  Worth looking into SW.  Find out where your coaches ranked.

Yes, I have seen many couples (six couples) that without conscious awareness are not able to get any higher then the placement of their coach/es. If I were you, I would definitely have a look at it. It would be a shame if you are stopped from getting 1st just because of a program that could be changed.

Let us know what you find out.

DSV
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"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
etp777
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« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2009, 11:37:06 PM »

I know I've commented ont hat before with some couples.  That it seems they get into their head they can't make hop to beat last couple above them, and get kind of in rut of second fiddle.  Had one of our local rhythm couples in a similar situation, where they were always second to another couple in same studio, and two other couples in area had pretty regularly beaten them, and they were  definitely in rut about it.  Then one comp, beat all three of those other couples.  Next week at USDC, yet again beat that couple from their studio they had been trailing behind.  Like it was just stuck in their head that they were always second, then suddenly some judges pointed out to them they didnt' have to be, and they just ran with it.
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SwingWaltz
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« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2009, 12:09:31 AM »

Have you done any coachings with the judges that are placing yous econd?  Might help to get some idea from them of what is holding you back.  especially if it's same few judges every time.

We've always had the same coach, for both Standard and New Vogue. The judging panel is pretty much the same for every comp, most of them are from Victoria and many have their own couples on the floor competing against us (our coach does not adjudicate). I think we'll get the result card and see who placed us in what rank, and maybe somehow seek for the opinion of some of the judges. Or even having a couple of lessons with them.

the answer is simply to stick at it and not let it get you down.  In Australia could you approach a judge and ask?  I've done that here when I was particularly worried about something - as long as its off the floor (in the bar Smiley) it always recieved a positive and supportive reply.  Do you also have visiting coaches - outside superstars that visit your studio?  That is a great way to find out what eyou could do to rack up the dancing a notch.

There are something that our coach identified from the weekend which we could work on. We have 2 month until the Nationals in december, and if we really train hard, and especially in the areas of our weaknesses, we could give the National title a good run! Sometimes we get visiting coaches, and we have always been fortunate enough to have lessons when they come! The studio really looks after us! Which is great!

It might be an idea to do some contemplating and ask yourself if you have been subconsciously programmed to get 2nd ever time. I have known several dancers that are programmed to get the result they get every time and it has gone on for years. They have gotten the same result every time they dance important competitions. Couples in front of them retire or split up and out of the blue comes a couple up from behind and beats them. Often couples are not even consciously aware they are programmed. They just don’t understand why they can’t move forward. If somebody told them they are programmed, they would just laugh at it. The fact that you are asking shows, that you are ready to make changes. Start you reprogramming today so that you are no longer get 2nd place. All the best with the first places that will soon come your way!!!

DSV

I am not laughing at the idea at all. I am doing some serious contemplating. Next time I'm in at the studio, I'll have a chat with our coach about it, look for the "road block" and blast through it! At the moment, I don't understand what is stopping us! I'm giving myself excuses such as the couple who won had a better dress (worn by current Australian Pro Champion, costed $3500AU too!). But I know that's just an excuse, and not the real reason for them beating us! Time to reprogram for sure! Maybe changing our routines slightly? I already know that there are certain steps in our routine that I don't like at all, cause they seem to stop the flow of movement. i.e. I particularly don't like the hairpin. We're going to change our routine slightly (change a couple of steps) before the Nationals in december.

I'd definitely be interested in hearing more about this "programming" concept...

Me too! Please share!
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Some guy
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« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2009, 12:28:27 AM »

Changing your choreo, has quite a bit to do with programming.  I noticed that my routines had an "insurance policy" in there to make sure that I would lose.  These are portions of the routine that are, on a scale of 1 to 10, "10" on difficulty and "2" on performance impact.  Basically we have put in hard elements into our choreo to make sure if a judge watches us during those sections we are guaranteed a loss.  Pay attention to your choreo and ask yourself, "am I better than this step?!".  If the answer is, "yes!  I can dance so much better than this step/pattern is making me", take it out, or work on in it with your coach so that that step is consistent with your dance abilities.  It's great that you identified the "hairpin" as one such step, as you seem to be confident that you're better than that step.  

All our coaches have told us that we have a very natural jive... when we dance basics and flicks.  However, recently, one visiting coach, a former pro Latin World Champion, was shocked to see that we only had about 6-seconds of flicks and basics in our routine.  The rest of the routine was not doing our natural abilities any justice.  Then he asked us who gave us the choreo.  We mentioned the name of the coach who gave us our jive choreo and this ex world champ went, "guess what!  That coach can't dance flicks or basics.  So your routine doesn't highlight anything you do naturally.  You're so much better than this choreo!".  

At first it felt like we were taking the easy way out: instead of mastering the choreo and performing it well, it almost felt like we were "cheating" by changing our choreo to match our natural strengths.  However, we struck a healthy balance of trying to fix things and getting rid of things that didn't work.  The idea is to showcase your abilities, not your inabilities.  Getting rid of these elements will make dancing a pleasure and that in itself will show on your face and improve your performance.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2009, 12:30:36 AM by Some guy » Logged
QPO
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Adelaide South Australia


« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2009, 01:29:15 AM »

I think I might know what it is....I will PM you with what I think it is.....once I have discussed it with you I will put it on the forum for others to agree or disagree if you are happy with that...
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Ginger
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I see what you did there.


« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2009, 03:34:36 AM »

Well, in equine competition not against the clock, we called it "rigged". Small world, everyone knew everyone, judges, trainers, competitors, horses, etc.... so every show was pretty predictable, unless someone just fell down and died. It only changes when someone falls in or out of favor, pays their dues, etc.
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SwingWaltz
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Posts: 5772


« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2009, 03:37:08 AM »

Well, in equine competition not against the clock, we called it "rigged". Small world, everyone knew everyone, judges, trainers, competitors, horses, etc.... so every show was pretty predictable, unless someone just fell down and died. It only changes when someone falls in or out of favor, pays their dues, etc.

I would HATE to think that way! Because almost everyone else has had their chance, we are the only ones missing out. If it was like what you just said, then it must mean the judges hate us.
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QPO
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Adelaide South Australia


« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2009, 05:00:31 AM »

I have posted a PM to SW and he said it was alright to mention it here. His dancing is wonderful and as Ginger said it is possible to have it rigged...you know it is not what you know but who you know.....having said that...

When I read SW post the first thing I thought of was the emotional connection. his dance technique is wonderful and I would love to be able to do that. But some of the dances in New Vogue required you to show emotions and I think that is sometimes missing. You have to be good actors and show love and feeling in the waltz and foxtrot styles.

It will be interesting to see what DSV says about that.
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