Things you wish instructors would emphasize sooner

[elisedance]

thanks for the clarification - but it begs the question how the body school would achieve the contact

[TangoDancer]

Aha!  I'm not sure DSV is as taken with it.  Is it possible - we may get a discussion between you two 

Nice try.......  , but....

I am not saying it is wrong. What I want to make sure everybody understand and what I am saying there are 4 Schools of Thought and this video only represents one of them. It is a great representation but nevertheless it only one way so do not be discouraged if you are not doing it the same way.  DSV

I agree w/ this. My praiseof the video stands, acquiescing that it is good for many trying to find their own.

[elisedance]

And harmony rules in the body schools

For me the most amazing part of the video is Ann herself - I have never seen a person with such a perfect poise - she hints at doing ballet did she start in that danceform?

[elisedance]

This discussion after the above post started by albanaich has been renamed 'ballroom is not dancing' and has been moved to the 'radical ideas' board.

Continuation of the discussion in this topic will please cease - its got nothing to do with the topic.

[samina]

what a delightful and informative thread. i really enjoyed reading it.

my own instructor provided me a good year of intense technical information when we first started working together, which is what i asked for. it was a very left-brained approach, and he subsequently would say that because of this early instruction, i "know more than many pros", as far as certain technical principles. but then we both realized that i still wasn't *dancing* at all. whatever i'd been learning, it was worthless information on a level because i wasn't *using* it. we both seemed to shift gear into a right-brained approach, then, without really talking about it.

that's when my progress really exploded. he explained to me, basically, what my jobs were and how to do them, and when we moved he just kept me on task with them. he wasn't routine-oriented, although we had pattern combinations that we worked with. we had "routines" for competition, but i was always expected to be in the moment, following him, because he could (and would) change them at any given moment.

and that is the instruction technique that really worked for me. it was *so* not step or routine oriented. it was such a good thing, as i gave up the "need to know" things conceptually, and just shifted to sensation and paying attention to doing my job on the floor. so simple. i'm totally sold on that approach. seems we do indeed tend to make it far more complicated than it needs to be. as i learn more about my body and how the natural forces want to move through it, it all just keeps getting simpler and simpler.

[albanaich]

Whoa. . . . .I could've written that myself, but I didn't get that information from my teachers, but from WCS and Argentine Tango. I'm on the search for a partner who I can lead and who wants to be lead, not a marionette who has to follow rules.

[elisedance]

Whoa. . . . .I could've written that myself, but I didn't get that information from my teachers, but from WCS and Argentine Tango. I'm on the search for a partner who I can lead and who wants to be lead, not a marionette who has to follow rules.

You might do well to read a few of the older topics and posts on PDO and you will find that this idea is quite common place here - that ballroom (or any partner dance) is not a leader and follower but two dancers engaging in a dance 'conversation'.  And I agree, that is truly the best.

[samina]

Whoa. . . . .I could've written that myself, but I didn't get that information from my teachers, but from WCS and Argentine Tango.

i find it helpful to think in terms of "principles". learn the principles of movement, adhere to them, and dance within the framework that they lay out. still, my understanding of these things is in its infancy on a level, and i am eager to learn more. but in the end, you are left with a physical body with bones, joints, and muscles, through which the forces of gravity, resistance, and inertia move only certain ways... and i gravitate towards instructors that are attuned to that perspective ("ballroom dance as a form of martial arts", in a way) rather than those who teach "rules".

I'm on the search for a partner who I can lead and who wants to be lead, not a marionette who has to follow rules.

lead and follow is also very much about communication... you have to be sure the two of you speak and understand the same language. focus on fluid communication, on listening and learning effective communication, and i'm sure you'll experience more fulfilling lead & follow relationships.

[samina]

ballroom (or any partner dance) is not a leader and follower but two dancers engaging in a dance 'conversation'.  And I agree, that is truly the best.

lol... clearly we're on the same wavelength.

[albanaich]

Hey. . . . it looks like folks are talking the language of Argentine Tango here. . . .lead and follow, communication, this is definitely non-ballroom, whatever next - how to interpret the music?

[samina]

Hey. . . . it looks like folks are talking the language of Argentine Tango here. . . .lead and follow, communication, this is definitely non-ballroom,

this is the very heart of ballroom...

[albanaich]

Not in my experinece - quite the opposite

[pinkstuff]

How to stand-up straight (or somebody had), now I only know I'm straight if I feel like I'm falling over backwards 

[samina]

Not in my experinece - quite the opposite

although it may seem like your exposure to ballroom is extensive... perhaps it's not as extensive as you believe. or rather, perhaps your exposure is extensive only at a certain level in or a particular "circuit" of instructors. maybe there's a whole loop or caliber of instructors you just haven't connected with who many of us are most familiar with... and for them, it's very much about lead & follow. my own instructor would eat me for lunch if i tried to resist that approach.

i think probably if there is so much non-lead & follow instruction going on, it may be more because students resist that dynamic. they want to stay in the left-brain side of things in order to feel "safe" (or so they think...). it's a big leap to step into the apparent mindlessness of the right-brain experience in order to just be in the moment and follow. there's a delicious experience waiting for someone in that "zone", of being both "blank" and - ironically - very safe indeed, but i suspect many students resist going there... for a host of reasons, no doubt.

and so... their instructors, and the business at large... may end up giving them what they want and can feel good about. routines and steps.

[albanaich]

I'm not disagreeing with you. . . .giving them what they want is what its all about, dont' tell them they can't hold a beat, or have no cordination, keep them plodiding thorugh the set rountines without any reference to the underlying problems.

The amusing bit is the way I teach the novices at ballroom - pure Argentine Tango, and the rest West Coast Swiing.. . .none of the ballroom garbage.