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Author Topic: Advanced pro-am - do they have progress-added value?  (Read 5344 times)
elisedance
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« on: August 23, 2009, 06:36:14 PM »

This might be a bit touchy, I hope not. 

Here i want to ask the question whether top AMs of pro/am couples (the pro/AM) have 'value added' beyond the money they pay to the pro.  Is a highly ranked pro/AM student at all a status/performance/teaching symbol for a pro?  There are several aspects to this.  First, a top pro/AM can permit a retired pro to get into active competition again.  They can also provide extra exposure for competing pros (though this is obviously debatable - but think of being in the team match at OSB or performing an honour dance the evening of the televised competition). 

There are other aspects of this but I'd be interested in what others think first...

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ttd
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« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2009, 12:19:39 PM »

My teacher says that any of his pro-am competing is a reflection of his work as a teacher and as a dancer, too, so when we do well, it's an added value to him.

I'd say from that perspective basically anything where one can show off his work is a bonus.
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elisedance
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« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2009, 01:03:32 PM »

If that is so - and if the higher we achieve the more they benefit - then doesn't that mean (in our society) that we should get some benefit?  Possibly both from the pro and the competition.  The only leverage we have with the pro is to go to a different one - but that means staying at least a bit impatial (er, which I don't think I can do Cheesy).

At Empire I did OK competing in schollarship - I was quite (pleasantly) surprised that after a lot of people that I did not know came up to complement me - I even had two complements walking through times square the next day!  I don't mention this to show off at all but I'm wondering if the comp organizers are missing a real marketing opportunity.  Perhaps there is a 'star' value to pro/ams - just as there is to top pros and ams.  I wonder if any of the audience are actually there to watch the pro/am comps (scary eh Smiley). 

If so (and I may be totally up the creek here) why should these top pro/ams also get comp perks?  Beyond, I hasten to add, the schollarship which is usually not enough to cover the obligatory entry fees.  I really want to stress that I am certainly no where near that level but there are pro/ams that I make sure I'm there to watch, and not just because they are competition either Wink

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Some guy
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« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2009, 02:00:07 PM »

There definitely is added value, and there are a few pros that recognize this and give heavy discounts to their "star" students because of the exposure and "advertising" the pro gets.
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ttd
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« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2009, 02:18:25 PM »

I strongly doubt that anyone in the audience is there to specifically watch pro-am events just for the sake of pro-am events. Non-dancers aka people off the street have no idea what the difference is. They're just there to enjoy beautiful dancing. Same is true for purely social dancers, they're there to watch (although they hopefully have a better idea of what's going on) and dance during general dancing breaks. Non-dancing friends and relatives are there to watch a specific couple, regardless of the couple's affiliation. The rest of the audience are the competitors, they're the only ones who understand the structure well enough since they're part of it, but I'm pretty sure they're not coming to the evening session just to watch high-level pro-am. Pro events are a bigger draw. In fact, some competitors would just go watch the pros (like get in the ballroom just in time for the pro events).

So, from the organizer's perspective, that's not enough, I think, to justify any perks for top pro-ams other than scholarship money and a maybe an honor dance. That leaves the pro side, but that's really up to each individual pro-am team to decide how they handle the promotional value of am for the pro.
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elisedance
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« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2009, 04:20:07 PM »

It may be like that now - but it does not have to be.  The point is that I think most people in any audience for ballroom are other dancers (or their friends or relatives) so its no different for pro/am. 

What I would like to know is for each dancer in schollarship how many are there at lower levels?  I suspect that the pool is quite large - and by itself constitutes an audience.  Its just a case of marketing.
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ttd
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« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2009, 04:56:46 PM »

It may be like that now - but it does not have to be.  The point is that I think most people in any audience for ballroom are other dancers (or their friends or relatives) so its no different for pro/am.  

What I would like to know is for each dancer in schollarship how many are there at lower levels?  I suspect that the pool is quite large - and by itself constitutes an audience.  Its just a case of marketing.

Just look at any program, count up all ams in the open scholarship, and subtract them from the list of all ams. The rest will be your lower-level ams. My point is, though, that they are not necessarily as interested in watching open pro-am scholarships just for the sake of watching them (if they don't know anyone dancing in them personally). Mainly because pro events are more interesting. If it were otherwise, we would not be having conversations like this  in the beginning of the evening session "what's the estimated time for pro standard, I want to go grab something to eat".
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elisedance
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« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2009, 09:10:06 PM »

but does it have to be like that?  I suppose it really depends on what fraction of pro/ams actually want to make it to schollarship.  If its a large fraction then there is at least a potential to turn them onto becoming fans...
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ttd
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« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2009, 10:55:52 PM »

but does it have to be like that?  I suppose it really depends on what fraction of pro/ams actually want to make it to schollarship.  If its a large fraction then there is at least a potential to turn them onto becoming fans...

Fans of whom?
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etp777
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« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2009, 11:01:49 PM »

Personally, I go to cheer on my friends.  Whether they're pro couple who hasn't ever won a comp (YET!, they will!!  Wink ) or they're one of top pro am competitors (thinking Natalka or Ryan), I'm there for people I know.  Now, there are certainly couples I love watching that I don't know, but those are mostly pro couples.  That's because most friends I go to cheer on are pros too, so I find couples I enjoy watching while watching my friends.  Paramanovs and Alex Tecza/Katja Lindholm coem to mind first in that category.  Oh, and Pavlo and Natalia after seeing them at Nevada, even if they got seventh.  Smiley  Most of time though, I'm there to see and cheer for people I know.
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ttd
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« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2009, 11:13:20 PM »

Same here, I'm usually there to watch and cheer for people I know (sometimes marginally, but still, there is some sort of personal connection). I do try to watch some events for learning purposes where I might not know anyone, like pro standard or pro smooth.
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elisedance
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« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2009, 03:43:18 AM »

You aren't interested if the pro/am that won OSB for three years running is at your comp? 
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

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etp777
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« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2009, 06:34:50 AM »

Only if she's cute.  Wink
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elisedance
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« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2009, 06:44:09 AM »

men...
actually I meant to ask a fellow pro/amer, ttd Smiley
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
etp777
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« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2009, 06:49:45 AM »

Heh, I actually enjoy watching top proamers, but won't go to see them except for friends, as mentioned.  Really enjoyed the sr standard and smooth proam championships at nevada last weekend.
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