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Author Topic: A Bookshelf for Bookworm  (Read 8659 times)
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Some guy
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Posts: 1437


« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2009, 07:59:46 PM »

Good luck Bookworm!  Sounds exciting!  As far as your dancing "levels" are concerned, don't get caught up in that.  It doesn't mean diddly squat unless the two of you can look good and feel good as a couple.  If at all, it's more pressure on the more "advanced" dancer to make sure that the partnership looks and feels better.  I learned painfully from first hand experience with generous helpings of humble pie served by DSV's sister that even 'though I considered myself more "advanced" than my partner in one particular style, that only meant that I had twice the responsibility to make sure the partnership looked good and my partner felt great dancing with me.  My partner ate from the same humble pie as she's stronger in another style and always wished that I could be as "advanced" as her.  You (or your partner) can only consider yourself "advanced" if you're able to make the partnership as a whole look better and make the other partner feel better dancing with you.  The more advanced partner has no place to complain that it feels bad because if he/she truly were "advanced", then he/she will be able to fix things within THEMSELVES (not their partner) to where the dancing would still work.  If the less "advanced" partner complains that it feels bad, it's still up to the more advanced dancer to make the less advanced dancer feel good.  It was very humbling to declare that my partner was getting in my way or preventing me from dancing to my "advanced" abilities, only to have DSV's sister dance the same pattern with my partner with no problems or issues and have my partner exclaim: "wow!  That felt... different!".  I highly recommend using this train of thought: that way partners would think twice about declaring themselves "more advanced" given the increased responsibility and expectation. 

I wish my partner and I knew this when we started off our partnership.  There are so many horrible fights and memories that in retrospect seem like completely misguided and unproductive energy.

If you can survive a dance partnership, the relationship should be a breeze! Cool
« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 08:05:03 PM by Some guy » Logged
maccer
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 135


« Reply #46 on: November 19, 2009, 09:20:02 PM »

I'm often amazed at how quickly the dancing skills of the less 'advanced' person in the partnership can improve when placed with a more advanced dancer. I've seen this many times over the years. It's a bit like playing tennis, when you practise with a better player, your game improves.

I am also bemused by the number of advanced dancers who choose not to take on a lesser dancer. It's sad to see so many potentially good dancers, particularly girls, leave the sport because they can't find a partner willing to give them a go.
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QPO
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Adelaide South Australia


« Reply #47 on: November 19, 2009, 11:47:24 PM »

just need more men that would be prepared to give dancing ago...they feel it is such a femine thing to do Undecided
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Dance is a delicate balance between perfection and beauty.  ~Author Unknown
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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #48 on: November 20, 2009, 01:34:57 AM »

...holding a beautiful woman in your arms, in constant body contact while you move to exciting music - and she has to follow everything you do.

very feminine indeed Cheesy
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Some guy
Intermediate Silver
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Posts: 1437


« Reply #49 on: November 20, 2009, 11:29:07 AM »

I'm often amazed at how quickly the dancing skills of the less 'advanced' person in the partnership can improve when placed with a more advanced dancer. I've seen this many times over the years. It's a bit like playing tennis, when you practise with a better player, your game improves.

I am also bemused by the number of advanced dancers who choose not to take on a lesser dancer. It's sad to see so many potentially good dancers, particularly girls, leave the sport because they can't find a partner willing to give them a go.

Amen to that Maccer... and I'm guilty as charged.  I'm glad to say, however, that I was never guilty of not taking on a "less advanced" dancer.  In fact I left my more advanced partner (and she was really advanced because she could win us competitions) to dance with my current partner (who at the time, I considered to be less advanced).  Potential and compatibility was the key for me.  I saw no growth or improvement in myself or the partnership as a whole.  So I had to make a choice between a winning a few competitions in the short term or growing as a partnership in the long term.  I had many offers from "more advanced" dancers which I turned down because I knew my new partner had it in her to be the best.  However, during practice, my super-ego would rear it's ugly head and measure how "advanced" I was based on totally irrelevant abilities that contributed NOTHING to the partnership.  Just because I could dance by myself better than she could dance by herself, or I could do something with my coach better, or I could do the same pattern with my previous partner better, it said nothing of my abilities to contribute to the current partnership.  Yes, massive "duh!" alert, as this is "partner" dancing!  DSV's sister had to put on boxing gloves and pummel my ego into a cave.  Then dynamite the entrance to seal it in while she got her message across.  Then she taught me how to dance with my partner and how much more responsibility I had and how that translated directly into massive improvements on my partner's part.  That was in Latin.  

In Standard, my partner did think I was the weaker link, but she too stuck with me because she saw potential.  However, during practice she would get frustrated with me because I didn't move as much as her or she felt I would lead her all wrong.  DSV's sister was able to show her that, again, she was an advanced dancer by herself, but there were things she needed to do in order to give me the freedom of what I needed to do.  Suddenly, I am dancing almost as "advanced" as she is.  My partner used to HATE dancing standard with less advanced dancers at socials.  However, now she LOVES dancing with less advanced dancers as she's able to rock their world and make the partnership as a whole feel great.  That I believe is the true definition of an advanced partner dancer.  

Sorry to talk about my experiences so much here Bookworm but I see myself as a cautionary tale and try to prevent others from making the same time wasting unproductive hurtful mistakes I made.  It's just that it seems like this is your first amateur partnership (am I right?) and I don't know your BF, but it's very easy for partners to compare themselves to each other.  I was taught that you are only as good as your partnership as a whole.  It might be a good idea to set a definition as to what "more advanced" means, and make sure that you both understand that if it isn't working for the partnership, then it's irrelevant to consider.  
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 11:39:20 AM by Some guy » Logged
QPO
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Adelaide South Australia


« Reply #50 on: November 21, 2009, 02:53:13 AM »

what a journey you have taken..we can all learn from it.
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Dance is a delicate balance between perfection and beauty.  ~Author Unknown
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bookworm
Intermediate Silver
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Posts: 1242


« Reply #51 on: November 22, 2009, 05:06:42 AM »

Yes, SG you are correct. If I decide to dance with BF, then it would be my first am partnership.
And no need to apologise, I love hearing about other peoples experiences, in fact thank you very much for posting it!! As Q said I know we can all learn from it. 

One of my favourite quotes is by Newton.
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants."

and another by John Salisbury
"We are like dwarfs sitting on the shoulders of giants. We see more, and things that are more distant, than they did, not because our sight is superior or because we are taller than they, but because they raise us up, and by their great stature add to ours."

 Smiley
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bookworm
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Posts: 1242


« Reply #52 on: November 22, 2009, 05:14:27 AM »

Forgot to add about Arthur Murray.

When I was having my interview I asked the studio manager about dancesport. He said it was fine as he competes as well.
It was funny as he actually met my BF before he met me. He was competing at Williamstown a few weeks ago and this was just after I sent my CV in. On my CV I had listed were I had been getting training from and one of the places I train is the same studio he (the manager) trains at. So anyway, at the comp he asked his coach (who is also my coach) about me and she pointed to my BF and introduced them.  Tongue
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elisedance
Administrator
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ee


« Reply #53 on: November 22, 2009, 05:55:17 AM »

Forgot to add about Arthur Murray.

When I was having my interview I asked the studio manager about dancesport. He said it was fine as he competes as well.

Please don't leave it at that.  Ask your amateur organization what the rules are and if you can teach at an AM franchise and still compete.  From what you said, it is not clear that the manager competes at state competitions and not just at AM events.
ee
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
maccer
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 135


« Reply #54 on: November 22, 2009, 04:51:48 PM »

WOW! Someguy, I'm blown away by your comments. If only the were more enlightened dancers like you out there.
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bookworm
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« Reply #55 on: November 22, 2009, 10:26:54 PM »

From what you said, it is not clear that the manager competes at state competitions and not just at AM events.
ee

Ah, sorry. Yes, he dances state events.
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elisedance
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« Reply #56 on: November 23, 2009, 01:56:28 AM »

Well, lets hope HE is not breaking the rules...
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Some guy
Intermediate Silver
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Posts: 1437


« Reply #57 on: November 23, 2009, 12:37:38 PM »

One of my favourite quotes is by Newton.
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants."

and another by John Salisbury
"We are like dwarfs sitting on the shoulders of giants. We see more, and things that are more distant, than they did, not because our sight is superior or because we are taller than they, but because they raise us up, and by their great stature add to ours."

 Smiley
Beautiful!  So humbling.  That's how I feel right about now.  I didn't make any of these enlightened discoveries myself.  I can only see them because I'm standing on the shoulders of those who care about me and are showing me these things.  DSV's sister has some strong shoulders!
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Some guy
Intermediate Silver
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Posts: 1437


« Reply #58 on: November 23, 2009, 12:46:01 PM »

WOW! Someguy, I'm blown away by your comments. If only the were more enlightened dancers like you out there.
Like bookworm reminded me, I'm only seeing it because somebody cared enough to show me the way.  If not, I'd be the same monster I was.  

Speaking of which, we had to do a showcase last weekend.  It was for Latin.  It went TERRIBLY.  My partner was nervous as ever.  My partner went off by herself and didn't follow a single lead.  What's worse, she forgot the choreo and went off by herself doing "different" choreography that I couldn't follow.  I had to remind myself of what I posted here.  It was NOT she who messed up.  It was me.  If my lead was strong and clear enough, she would've had no choice but to follow me.  If we had done enough test runs of the performance, she wouldn't have been nervous.  If I was truly "advanced" and "experienced", then she would've trusted me and waited for my lead.  I am more experienced in Latin, and I should've known better than to expose my partner to that, especially when it was painfully obvious that my partnering skills were nothing short of terrible.  It's SO much easier to blame the other person, but I know that if, say, DSV's sister (yes, a lady) were to replace me at that performance, my partner would've danced like a dream and looked like one of the best ladies out there.  That in itself puts the blame squarely on my shoulders.  A month ago, I would've gladly put the blame squarely on my partner.      
« Last Edit: November 23, 2009, 12:47:34 PM by Some guy » Logged
elisedance
Administrator
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ee


« Reply #59 on: November 23, 2009, 04:00:57 PM »

WOW! Someguy, I'm blown away by your comments. If only the were more enlightened dancers like you out there.
Like bookworm reminded me, I'm only seeing it because somebody cared enough to show me the way.  If not, I'd be the same monster I was. 

Speaking of which, we had to do a showcase last weekend.  It was for Latin.  It went TERRIBLY.  My partner was nervous as ever.  My partner went off by herself and didn't follow a single lead.  What's worse, she forgot the choreo and went off by herself doing "different" choreography that I couldn't follow.  I had to remind myself of what I posted here.  It was NOT she who messed up.  It was me.  If my lead was strong and clear enough, she would've had no choice but to follow me.  If we had done enough test runs of the performance, she wouldn't have been nervous.  If I was truly "advanced" and "experienced", then she would've trusted me and waited for my lead.  I am more experienced in Latin, and I should've known better than to expose my partner to that, especially when it was painfully obvious that my partnering skills were nothing short of terrible.  It's SO much easier to blame the other person, but I know that if, say, DSV's sister (yes, a lady) were to replace me at that performance, my partner would've danced like a dream and looked like one of the best ladies out there.  That in itself puts the blame squarely on my shoulders.  A month ago, I would've gladly put the blame squarely on my partner.     
And now you make a type II error (hint: type I was blaming her entirely Smiley

Besides, you can not be sure that it wasn't something about her.  Its particularly pertinent for me because Saturday I screwed up our dancing because I set the wrong priorities when I stepped on the floor.  I have no doubt it was me and would get more upset if my partner had blamed himself.  Fortunately I had a chance to redeem myself (and prove the point) on Sunday.

Your reality is most likely somewhere between the type I and type II error - that you managed to make each other nervous.
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
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