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| | | |-+  Quicks and slows refer to body movement...not foot speed
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Author Topic: Quicks and slows refer to body movement...not foot speed  (Read 2366 times)
TangoDancer
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« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2009, 02:50:44 AM »

What is a Coles book?

In the US it's called Cliff's Notes.
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
elisedance
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« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2009, 05:02:47 AM »

[hey, BOT please - we're in the PDO the library here and we only use the original texts Wink]
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cornutt
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« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2009, 10:00:10 PM »

Here are some common examples that will hopefully help to understand this concept. For those of you who dance amer bronze fox, we note that it is most often taught in rhythms as SSQQ. Yet, some of us understand that this is a teaching tool, but isn't really correct. The proper rhythm is SSSQ. Simply put, QQ does not exist in natural dance movement. Here's the exercise. Dance the pattern (forward, forward, side, close) saying aloud the usual rhythm...SSQQ. Now, dance the pattern saying aloud, 1,2,3,4. Is the 3 really quicker than the 4? No. It is the same. Thus, the correct rhythm is SSSQ, and the dance just became instantly smoother. Know that the only "true" quick in dance is when the feet come together (like on 4), or at the end of a movement or momentum.


This is what frustrates me about the way timing is described in ballroom instruction.  Maybe it's because I tend to approach it from a musician's background, but when S is described as two counts, and Q is described as one count, then it looks to me like SSSQ adds up to seven, and obviously it doesn't fit the meter of the music.  So it kind of leaves me hanging as to what this actually means.  I can't get my head wrapped around it.

So are these "S"es sort of like triplets?  Do three S's add up to five?  I can sort of deal with that, but it seems really weird... a five-into-six rhythm is something you'd generally only find in really out-there experimental music (and probably only something played with a sequencer).  I really wish we could describe these things in terms of beats-per-quarter-note or MIDI clocks or something.   Cheesy
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elisedance
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« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2009, 10:31:06 PM »

I remember a lecture on FT by one of the early US ballroom stars who was particularly well known for this dance (and, incidentally for making odd faces when he danced - something that was copied by umpteen young dancers).  His advice was: "There are four beats and there are three steps - you figure it out." Smiley
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
cornutt
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« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2009, 10:46:11 PM »

His advice was: "There are four beats and there are three steps - you figure it out." Smiley

See, that I can deal with.  Provided that my partner or instructor can deal with the fact that the resulting timing will be my own interpretation, to an extent.  The thing I always have to watch out for in foxtrot is the temptation to dance all the steps as half-note triplets -- then it turns into waltz.   Roll Eyes
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elisedance
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« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2009, 10:54:25 PM »

Ah, yes.  the hardest dance to do is the foxtrot to waltz music Smiley  Funny, almost any other combination is OK but that will blow your FT to pieces if you are not careful...
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
TangoDancer
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« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2009, 04:03:03 AM »

Here are some common examples that will hopefully help to understand this concept. For those of you who dance amer bronze fox, we note that it is most often taught in rhythms as SSQQ. Yet, some of us understand that this is a teaching tool, but isn't really correct. The proper rhythm is SSSQ. Simply put, QQ does not exist in natural dance movement. Here's the exercise. Dance the pattern (forward, forward, side, close) saying aloud the usual rhythm...SSQQ. Now, dance the pattern saying aloud, 1,2,3,4. Is the 3 really quicker than the 4? No. It is the same. Thus, the correct rhythm is SSSQ, and the dance just became instantly smoother. Know that the only "true" quick in dance is when the feet come together (like on 4), or at the end of a movement or momentum.


This is what frustrates me about the way timing is described in ballroom instruction.  Maybe it's because I tend to approach it from a musician's background, but when S is described as two counts, and Q is described as one count, then it looks to me like SSSQ adds up to seven, and obviously it doesn't fit the meter of the music.  So it kind of leaves me hanging as to what this actually means.  I can't get my head wrapped around it.

Easy fix...not so simple to dance, though. Firstly, DO NOT TRANSLATE DANCE INTO MUSIC. Dancers do not count music the same as musicians. Oh dear...that thread again.....  Many dances are danced in counts of 6, yes? So is this one. The 3 slows = 6; the Q is an "and" or half. it is only there to effect the needed weight shift.
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
cornutt
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« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2009, 10:50:33 AM »


Dancers do not count music the same as musicians.

Yeah, I know.  That's what drives me nuts -- the meanings of S and Q are too damn imprecise.  I'd translate what you just said as: the first two S's are half notes, the third S is a dotted quarter note (a quarter plus an eighth), and the Q that's really an "and" is an eighth. 
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elisedance
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« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2009, 01:04:05 PM »

better to not go there I think C and to instead focus on the feel of FT rather than its precise timing - as I see it the latter varies anyway depending on the step....
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
cornutt
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« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2009, 02:47:06 PM »

better to not go there I think C and to instead focus on the feel of FT rather than its precise timing - as I see it the latter varies anyway depending on the step....

Been trying to do that, but that's when I fall into that trap of degenerating to a 3-into-4 waltz.  I guess I listened to too much progressive rock when I was a teenager.   Shocked
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