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Author Topic: Quicks and slows refer to body movement...not foot speed  (Read 2387 times)
elisedance
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« on: August 02, 2009, 07:15:15 AM »

This is a quote by Tango Dancer from the foxtrot board in the advanced section.  I had never seen it stated quite like that - when we try to learn steps from 'the book' that is never mentioned - the implication is always that quicks and slows describe the leg action during each step that is being tought. 

However, as you get better as dancing you have to learn to stop thinking about legs taking steps and instead about body moving and legs permitting that motion.  If so then the quicks and slows truly should reflect what you do with your body and not what you do with your legs.....
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Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2009, 02:59:20 PM »

This is a quote by Tango Dancer from the foxtrot board in the advanced section.  I had never seen it stated quite like that - when we try to learn steps from 'the book' that is never mentioned - the implication is always that quicks and slows describe the leg action during each step that is being tought. 

However, as you get better as dancing you have to learn to stop thinking about legs taking steps and instead about body moving and legs permitting that motion.  If so then the quicks and slows truly should reflect what you do with your body and not what you do with your legs.....

I totally agree with TD on this one.

My main teacher used to say that it is the body (therefore called the “Body School”) that creates the timing, the footwork, shapes and actions. He also said that is why he thought that "the book/s" has ruined more good dancers then helped them become good dancers. He actually would not have "the book/s" in the school unless you were doing an exam. He said that his dance school was a school of doers and not a school of readers or people that were able to recite.

Dora-Satya Veda
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Edward Teller
etp777
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« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2009, 03:03:03 PM »

I can't quite say whether it's feet or body, but I know one of our best smooth coaches around here emphasizes that quicks and slows in tango are flexible.  In fact, he greatly suggests not sticking to straigh ttiming on tango.  Extending the slows as much as possible, counterpointing with quicks that are QUICK.  not one beat, but less.  Longer slows give more time for shaping, etc, quicker quicks let you emphasize staccato nature of tango.
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TangoDancer
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« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2009, 05:43:32 AM »

This is a quote by Tango Dancer from the foxtrot board in the advanced section.  I had never seen it stated quite like that - when we try to learn steps from 'the book' that is never mentioned - the implication is always that quicks and slows describe the leg action during each step that is being tought.  

I totally agree with TD on this one.

My main teacher used to say that it is the body (therefore called the “Body School”) that creates the timing, the footwork, shapes and actions. He also said that is why he thought that "the book/s" has ruined more good dancers then helped them become good dancers. He actually would not have "the book/s" in the school unless you were doing an exam. He said that his dance school was a school of doers and not a school of readers or people that were able to recite.
Dora-Satya Veda

OK. Here we go! I just wrote much of this, and more, in a PM to someone who asked. I love it. Firstly, sorry...had to highlight parts of DSV's post that I am adamant about. I am chopping a fallen tree trying to get one of the teachers here to understand that he needs to listen to me...books don't dance!

Here are some common examples that will hopefully help to understand this concept. For those of you who dance amer bronze fox, we note that it is most often taught in rhythms as SSQQ. Yet, some of us understand that this is a teaching tool, but isn't really correct. The proper rhythm is SSSQ. Simply put, QQ does not exist in natural dance movement. Here's the exercise. Dance the pattern (forward, forward, side, close) saying aloud the usual rhythm...SSQQ. Now, dance the pattern saying aloud, 1,2,3,4. Is the 3 really quicker than the 4? No. It is the same. Thus, the correct rhythm is SSSQ, and the dance just became instantly smoother. Know that the only "true" quick in dance is when the feet come together (like on 4), or at the end of a movement or momentum.

For those of you who dance sil amer and/or it'l fox, you will understand this here. Let's take the running step (amer), ...feather step (it'l). We understand this movement to be step-swing-recover. We are often taught that the rhythm is SQQ. We all have said it from time to time. Even I have said it for ease of teaching, but correct it before we are finished. In order to dance this rhythm, one must dance a long step followed by 2 shorter ones. Yet, we also know that the steps to fox are long, longer, longest (step-swing-recover). Repeat the exercise above, first counting by rhythm, then by numbers. You will see that the 2e and 3e steps are not quicker than the first. Thus, the more correct rhythm for feather is SSQ. It is common sense to note that if the 2e and 3e steps are longer, then one must move "quicker" in order to arrive to them within the alloted time. The steps are not faster, only the movement of the body in order to reach the step. Thus, slows and quicks refer to body speed...not foot speed.

Of course, there is more to this, but this will, undoubtedly, get us going on some serious discussion.
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
elisedance
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« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2009, 07:37:39 AM »

So much of my recent dancing has been about body flight and so many fixes have required moving the body and not the legs that now when something does not work its the first thing I do to try to fix it (and usually its all it takes.  this affects everything - you can not get good ballance if your legs are beyond your body and your partner can not lead or follow if your body is over your legs - which means that in all cases the body has to be the primary dance focus (I'm slowly getting it DSV Wink).  Which part of the body?  Well whichever part you are using to establish balance I guess...
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Some guy
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« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2009, 01:44:40 PM »

My main teacher used to say that it is the body (therefore called the “Body School”) that creates the timing, the footwork, shapes and actions. He also said that is why he thought that "the book/s" has ruined more good dancers then helped them become good dancers. He actually would not have "the book/s" in the school unless you were doing an exam. He said that his dance school was a school of doers and not a school of readers or people that were able to recite.
I'm loving this thread!  I have realized that the cure for my compulsion to want to "step" is the cause for almost any discomfort or error in partnering.  The moment I think "don't step!" and just move my body, my body places my feet very efficiently making it very easy for my partner to follow my lead.  When my partner does the same, it almost seems like our steps are completely dependent on each other.  My step is her step: the synchronization we achieve when we don't bother "stepping" is quite amazing.  The book is definitely an attempt at explaining something that's simple to execute but very complex to explain.

Elise, as for which part of my body I think about moving, I have been pondering this for a while.  I feel like on each side, if I were to have a six-pack set of abs (someday!), it's an area somewhere near the first set of abs just below the chest.  If I'm moving forward on my left leg, I relax and swing my left side top abdominal muscle area forward, and most importantly I think to myself, "don't step!" at the end of the swinging action.  My body automatically seems to place my left leg under my body perfectly to catch my weight.  Rinse and reuse with the right side for best results.    Cheesy  I could be completely wrong in what I described, but again, it's not difficult to execute it: I just have no idea what I'm doing to execute it and occasionally I try to figure it out.
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Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2009, 02:07:09 PM »

So much of my recent dancing has been about body flight and so many fixes have required moving the body and not the legs that now when something does not work its the first thing I do to try to fix it (and usually its all it takes.  this affects everything - you can not get good ballance if your legs are beyond your body and your partner can not lead or follow if your body is over your legs - which means that in all cases the body has to be the primary dance focus (I'm slowly getting it DSV Wink).

My main teacher used to say “the movement of the body creates the dance” and “Q: What is the best quick fix there is? A: The body.”

I am glad to hear that you are beginning to get it Elise. Cheesy Even if it is slowly. Wink

Quote
Which part of the body?  Well whichever part you are using to establish balance I guess...

It really depends on what School of Thought you follow. The basic rule is that the man moves from the area where the connection between the partners is (in the Body School that would be around the Solar Plexus area).

In the Body School the man and the lady create the body movement very differently. The man would move from the highest point of connection. The lady moves by using her “3 active centers”.

As a little side note: Do remember the book/s is describing the end results as it is seen. It is not a “how to” book/s.

Dora-Satya Veda
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Edward Teller
TangoDancer
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« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2009, 03:14:03 AM »

As a little side note: Do remember the book/s is describing the end results as it is seen. It is not a “how to” book/s. Dora-Satya Veda

YES!!! Oh what I wouldn't give for a million dollar smiley right now. http://
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
elisedance
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« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2009, 03:54:08 AM »

Well that explains why I stopped looking at it, it didn't seem useful any more.

Pretty darn clever if you want to sell dancing (here's how it looks, now pay me and I'll show you how its done).  But oddly, dance is not marketed like that.  I think the reason is that 95% of teachers have not reached your profound realization DSV.
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The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2009, 01:04:42 PM »

Well that explains why I stopped looking at it, it didn't seem useful any more.

Pretty darn clever if you want to sell dancing (here's how it looks, now pay me and I'll show you how its done).  But oddly, dance is not marketed like that.  I think the reason is that 95% of teachers have not reached your profound realization DSV.

Oh yes, those books have made millions and millions of dollars/pounds. Shocked Sad They also used to have a letter service that would even make more money as the letters were a monthly service and only explained a little more.  Huh Sad

I guess I could start a service like that. The only problem is, I would just feel like I was robbing people. Undecided It sure will have to be in a different format. Not sure how to do it fairly....... yet. Wink
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elisedance
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« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2009, 03:16:58 PM »

perhaps video based.... or maybe by video conferencing - one can buy home versions now...
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catsmeow
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« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2009, 10:37:49 PM »

can we have a quiz about the above? two choices.. I think I know what is being discussed and I have no idea but dont want to look stupid saying no
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Rugby
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« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2009, 11:29:54 PM »

can we have a quiz about the above? two choices.. I think I know what is being discussed and I have no idea but dont want to look stupid saying no

Yeah, you have to keep up on the lingo or get the Coles book.   Grin
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« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2009, 11:47:28 PM »

What is a Coles book?
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Rugby
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« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2009, 12:16:28 AM »

What is a Coles book?

It gives you the abbreviated and clarified version on a subject.  For example in school, for each of the Shakespeare plays you had to read and write a report on, you would go to the bookstore and by the Coles version.  It told you what the characters were actually saying in plain English and what the play was about.  So now if someone told you something that made no sense or went on and on you would say; "Just give me the Coles version".
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You have to fight through a lot of crap before you find your way up out of the toilet. Sometimes I think I have a good hold on the rim then I slip back in.  Each time I don't sink quite as deep though. - Rugby
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