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Author Topic: Promotion through the ranks - how does it work where you are?  (Read 2953 times)
elisedance
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« on: July 25, 2009, 07:41:44 AM »

I think every country/organization has beginner through advanced levels for dancesport.  What I am interested here are teh rules (or lack) that dictate when you have to advance.

Here in Ontario amateur couple events (mostly international standard and latin) if you win a level with a full final (6 couples) three times you must advance.
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Lioness
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« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2009, 03:45:36 AM »

I'm not so sure on the Registered side, but in medallist you have bronze, silver, and gold. From your first bronze competition, you have a year in bronze, then you must move up to silver for the next comp after a year. Same goes for silver to gold. Once you're in gold you can stay there as long as you like. or move up to registered.

In registered. there are 5 levels. To elevate to the next level, you must get a certain number of points. I'll leave it to another one of the Aussies to explain it properly.
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etp777
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« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2009, 07:14:15 AM »

Interesting.  At least in proam ere in states, I'd say most dancesr aren't nearly ready for silver after just a year in bronze.  Least, not by my opinion.  But I think technique wise a LOT of silver dancers I see should have spent more time in bronze.
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Lioness
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« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2009, 08:24:53 AM »

I'm starting to feel the same way myself...gotta be silver by next April.
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SwingWaltz
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« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2009, 10:17:19 AM »

Amature registered competitions here in Australia have 5 levels, level 1 to level 5 from lowest to highest. Most newly registered dancers start in level 1, unless they are partnered by a higher level dancer, which then they would dance at the highest level indicated on their registration cards. Each level contains 5 elevation points, competitors mush gain at least (and most) 5 elevation points to elevate. Elevation is compulsory after all 5 points for that level has been gained. Competitions are categorized as National Championships (carry 5 elevation points and a win carries automatic elevation in level), Championships (carry 2 elevationpoints into your current level), Competitions (carry 1 elevation point into your current level). A win is automatically registered if more than 4 couples compete in that event, however elevation points can be elected to be taken for a win with less than 4 couples if the couple wants to. Level 1s are restricted to a number of "basic" steps, none harder than does in a silver medal system. Level 2 and above are open choreography. Level 3 and above qualify to dance in "Open" events, which are open to everyone from level 3, level 4 and level 5 (at some competitions, "Open" events are open to professionals too).
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elisedance
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« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2009, 10:57:14 AM »

Interesting.  At least in proam ere in states, I'd say most dancesr aren't nearly ready for silver after just a year in bronze.  Least, not by my opinion.  But I think technique wise a LOT of silver dancers I see should have spent more time in bronze.

But the main point is that there are no rules for promotion in Pro/Am.  Some couples advance as rapidly as they can - resulting in bronze level dancers in schollarship (open) while others move up and down like yo-yos depending on how they feel , competition wiht other pro/ams with their coach and the specific competition.  Oddly, this system seems to be self correcting - the hyper ambitious realize they bit off too much while the 'sandbaggers, get ribbed by their co-competitors.  The best description of hte 'rules' for pro/am is that its natural selection!
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elisedance
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« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2009, 11:00:11 AM »

Amature registered competitions here in Australia have 5 levels, level 1 to level 5 from lowest to highest. Most newly registered dancers start in level 1, unless they are partnered by a higher level dancer, which then they would dance at the highest level indicated on their registration cards. Each level contains 5 elevation points, competitors mush gain at least (and most) 5 elevation points to elevate. Elevation is compulsory after all 5 points for that level has been gained. Competitions are categorized as National Championships (carry 5 elevation points and a win carries automatic elevation in level), Championships (carry 2 elevationpoints into your current level), Competitions (carry 1 elevation point into your current level). A win is automatically registered if more than 4 couples compete in that event, however elevation points can be elected to be taken for a win with less than 4 couples if the couple wants to. Level 1s are restricted to a number of "basic" steps, none harder than does in a silver medal system. Level 2 and above are open choreography. Level 3 and above qualify to dance in "Open" events, which are open to everyone from level 3, level 4 and level 5 (at some competitions, "Open" events are open to professionals too).

Thats interesting - I have not seen an advancement system where it is normal to skip ranks.  Otherwise, save for the different levels teh system is in general the same as here.  The crucial point is that yoiu can not go backward - or can you if you appeal - I mean what if one partner has not competed for years or has a dance-related injury?
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etp777
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« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2009, 03:36:43 PM »

I could definitely see argument to stop sandbaggers, but just time in a level is not way to go.  Smiley  I like the way the pros do it here with ndca.  Win rising star in any comp, you can't compete it again.  Win Rising star at OSB, you can't compete rising star anywhere again.  Obviously, you can't do something exactly like that for proam, but something similar wouldn't be unreasonable.  Sure don't expect me to figure out what would work though.  Smiley  With NDCA, AM, FADS, etc, heck if I want to be responsible for trying to figure out something that would cause minimal complaints for everyone.  Of course no method that'd generate no complaints for anyone.
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elisedance
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« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2009, 07:05:52 PM »

... no system can work because there is no body that represents pro/ams - its as simple as that.  But we've discussed this before and the system works sorta without any legislation - its this:

Wanna win a lot?  Stay at a low level ad infinitum

wanna make your wins mean something? Promote.
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ttd
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« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2009, 09:39:25 PM »

I could definitely see argument to stop sandbaggers, but just time in a level is not way to go.  Smiley  I like the way the pros do it here with ndca.  Win rising star in any comp, you can't compete it again.  Win Rising star at OSB, you can't compete rising star anywhere again.  Obviously, you can't do something exactly like that for proam, but something similar wouldn't be unreasonable.  Sure don't expect me to figure out what would work though.  Smiley  With NDCA, AM, FADS, etc, heck if I want to be responsible for trying to figure out something that would cause minimal complaints for everyone.  Of course no method that'd generate no complaints for anyone.

There are rules for pro-am events at each individual competition, at least about closed levels. A general NDCA guideline AFAIK is that if you win an event with a semi-final at a competition, you cannot enter it again at the same competition, you have to move up. Some competitions have more stringent rules - one of our local competitions has a rule that if you win against 4 others, you have to move up. But I think they were much smaller when they set up that rule, they might revise it now that they have grown. Perhaps some competitions have more relaxed rules, but I haven't really paid attention. I only know about the local rule since it affected me personally - I placed out of bronze smooth there a few years ago and this year I have placed out of some silver smooth events as well (so I don't know how we will handle this next year).
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elisedance
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« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2009, 09:42:40 PM »

do they actually enforce the rules?  And if so how?  I mean if you entered in bronze smooth again would they actually say that you could not do so?
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ttd
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« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2009, 10:09:32 PM »

do they actually enforce the rules?  And if so how?  I mean if you entered in bronze smooth again would they actually say that you could not do so?

My friends and I asked the organizers and according to them, they will not allow that person entering the events they placed out of. Since I know these guys personally, I think they mean it. Now there is a loophole - if you did not win the scholarship, and you are old enough that you can dance down in age, you can enter same single dances in a lower age group, since the rules do not spell out that you cannot enter single dances on the same level at all. Or you can try them at a higher age group when you are old enough. So in theory, I could wait until I turn 46 and do bronze smooth scholarship there again, but I have no interest in doing so.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2009, 10:13:11 PM by ttd » Logged
mummsie
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« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2009, 10:26:02 PM »

Amature registered competitions here in Australia have 5 levels, level 1 to level 5 from lowest to highest. Most newly registered dancers start in level 1, unless they are partnered by a higher level dancer, which then they would dance at the highest level indicated on their registration cards. Each level contains 5 elevation points, competitors mush gain at least (and most) 5 elevation points to elevate. Elevation is compulsory after all 5 points for that level has been gained. Competitions are categorized as National Championships (carry 5 elevation points and a win carries automatic elevation in level), Championships (carry 2 elevationpoints into your current level), Competitions (carry 1 elevation point into your current level). A win is automatically registered if more than 4 couples compete in that event, however elevation points can be elected to be taken for a win with less than 4 couples if the couple wants to. Level 1s are restricted to a number of "basic" steps, none harder than does in a silver medal system. Level 2 and above are open choreography. Level 3 and above qualify to dance in "Open" events, which are open to everyone from level 3, level 4 and level 5 (at some competitions, "Open" events are open to professionals too).

Thats interesting - I have not seen an advancement system where it is normal to skip ranks.  Otherwise, save for the different levels teh system is in general the same as here.  The crucial point is that yoiu can not go backward - or can you if you appeal - I mean what if one partner has not competed for years or has a dance-related injury?

Hi,  you don't skip as such.  I will give you an example.  My son is level 2 in all 3 styles.  He started dancing with a beginner a couple of years ago who was level 1.  Every time he gets a level 2 elevation point, she gets 1 level 1 elevation point.   Currently they have 1 point to elevate to level 3 New Vogue for my son and level 2 New Vogue for his partner.  If they decide to split up, she would have to dance level 1 which are basic steps.  The only time you would skip a rank would be if you were level 1 say with no elevation points and your first comp out you will a national championship.  You would then go straight to level 2.  It doesn't happen very often, but I have seen it happen. - mummsie  Smiley
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QPO
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« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2009, 03:18:22 AM »

As as I did recently we went friom Level 1 to level three in Standard. we won a Level one event at a championship and then entered a leverl2/1 event and won that so we missed level two all together. 

It is a challenge and now we have to learn much harder routines, we will get there but are not expecting to win anything for awhile while we prefect the new routines.
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elisedance
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« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2009, 04:18:58 AM »

that seems a bit rough Q - was that a mistake on your part, i mean its not good to advance until you feel ready for it - or was that built into the system?
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