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| | | |-+  'Ivan the terrible' or 'Fairy Godmonther' - which teacher works for you?
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Author Topic: 'Ivan the terrible' or 'Fairy Godmonther' - which teacher works for you?  (Read 2890 times)
Some guy
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« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2009, 04:03:12 PM »

I don't know if I understand the "Ivan the terrible" analogy. Are we talking about coaches who yell and scream at students or the ones that are just "tough" on their students.  Personally, I don't think yelling is ever called for in an environment such as ballroom dancing where the students are there out of their own will taking time off their busy schedules and paying good money to learn something new. 

I see coaches yelling at students all the time, and occassionally, with enough yelling, the student gets it right. Then I see those very same students go to nice calm coaches who get them to do things right just as quickly, if not, faster than the yelling coach.  Surely, if one coach had to yell at them and the other only had to "communicate" to them what to do, I can't see one being better than the other except that "ol yeller" needs to improve their teaching skills. 

I've been yelled at plenty of times at lessons, and at the time I thought it was good tough love, but now I know better in that those coaches' volume during my lesson was inversely proportional to their teaching abilities. 
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elisedance
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« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2009, 06:45:31 PM »

(in reply to BTM, but the content seems to reply also to SG Smiley)
True, I guess we should qualify it further - and Ivan the terrible certainly sounds like a gothic harpie... (perish the thought)

A good teacher judges what you are ready for.

thats not a good teacher - its a great teacher because it inherently assumes that they are effective at it Wink.

I get more irritated by a teacher that is trying to make it easy for me by teaching me half the reality than a teacher that demands pefection and pushes me beyond my real limits.  But that really is just me - and no, I am not trying to be a professional (though if a tall pro asked me I guess..... but I digress (do I have to stop?)).....
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elisedance
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« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2009, 06:48:07 PM »

When I started the topic I did not mean to compare OTT coaches with docile ones but hard pushing/tough (no meanness) with reserved/gentle
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Bordertangoman
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« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2009, 05:06:10 AM »

hmm but that can depend on the students perceptions as much as the teachers attitude. I have long discussions with school teachers as to what constitutes criticism.
I will try not to say anything when I'm teaching that does not give a specific possibility of improvment; eg. if I say "you're unbalanced" this isnt helpful however accurate it may be. If I say " move your weight forward" or "straighten your back/neck head" or "dont look down, look ahead." then this is helpful; then keep correcting......

and if this doesnt work I keep saying it louder and louder and louder
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”We need a witness to our lives.  There's a billion people on the planet, what does any one life really mean? But in a marriage, you're promising to care about everything.  The good things, the bad things, the terrible things, the mundane things, all of it, all of the time, every day. "
elisedance
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« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2009, 06:35:40 AM »

I hope you use an american accent and then dress like a drill sargent too... Ivan the BTM
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Bordertangoman
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« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2009, 07:07:09 AM »

I hope you use an american accent and then dress like a drill sargent too... Ivan the BTM

BTM the jarhead; actually my hair is a No. 4 and I could model myself on Jack Nicholson's major in that film....

GIVE ME 20 OCHOS RIGHT NOW!!
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”We need a witness to our lives.  There's a billion people on the planet, what does any one life really mean? But in a marriage, you're promising to care about everything.  The good things, the bad things, the terrible things, the mundane things, all of it, all of the time, every day. "
Ginger
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I see what you did there.


« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2009, 02:40:46 PM »

ooh, cosplay...
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skipper
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« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2009, 09:30:27 PM »

I see my teacher as someone very different than my coach.
My teacher is the person that guides me and teaches me every week. My teacher also "translates" and reminds me about things my coach has brought up/added to/changed.
My teacher deals with my ups and downs on a regular basis. Yhis is especially true since I dance pro-am.

My coach, well that is a diffferent story. She usually has ONE idea to work on eaxh time we see each other. She will always ask what I want to do. She is not Ivan the terrible OR a fairy godmother--but we always sem to get to the real issues.  It is then up to me to work on them until I see her again.

Then there are the "itinerant" coaches---those that are passing thru. When we have those lessons, it is always looking for a specific piece of information.
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QPO
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« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2009, 01:06:54 AM »

is the coach and teacher the same person?

I often wonder if the response of the coach is also what the student puts out. I hear both my coaches speak quite hardly at some students but they never do it to me...they still get their message across, but they seem to be both styles depending on the student.
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elisedance
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« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2009, 06:25:45 AM »

I see my teacher as someone very different than my coach.
My teacher is the person that guides me and teaches me every week. My teacher also "translates" and reminds me about things my coach has brought up/added to/changed.
My teacher deals with my ups and downs on a regular basis. Yhis is especially true since I dance pro-am.

My coach, well that is a diffferent story. She usually has ONE idea to work on eaxh time we see each other. She will always ask what I want to do. She is not Ivan the terrible OR a fairy godmother--but we always sem to get to the real issues.  It is then up to me to work on them until I see her again.

Then there are the "itinerant" coaches---those that are passing thru. When we have those lessons, it is always looking for a specific piece of information.

I know its heresy but I see my pro-am male  - frankly as teacher, my coach and slso as my partner. 
But this all needs definition and I know we use these terms differently  - so it needs its own topic.  Back in a mo.... 
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
elisedance
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« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2009, 06:34:11 AM »

So I've put this in pro/am as its most relevant and interesting there:
http://partnerdanceonline.com/index.php?topic=680.new#new
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
phoenix13
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« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2013, 12:08:59 PM »

hmm but that can depend on the students perceptions as much as the teachers attitude. I have long discussions with school teachers as to what constitutes criticism.
I will try not to say anything when I'm teaching that does not give a specific possibility of improvment; eg. if I say "you're unbalanced" this isnt helpful however accurate it may be. If I say " move your weight forward" or "straighten your back/neck head" or "dont look down, look ahead." then this is helpful; then keep correcting......

and if this doesnt work I keep saying it louder and louder and louder

I response to the question as originally posed, the answer is neither.  I'd rather not have a teacher that bestows undeserved praise OR one who yells.

Someone earlier in the thread (QPO?) mentioned having a coach that uses different teaching techniques with different students.  To me, that sounds like a teacher who's on the right track. Not every student learns the same way.
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Dona nobis pacem.
elisedance
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« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2013, 04:32:06 PM »

The two extremes were just meant to be provocative since most people are more comfortable with a bit one way or a bit the other.  Either would indeed be intollerable!
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
phoenix13
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« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2013, 08:38:48 AM »

The really great teachers can be either or both as needed, even with the same student ...
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Dona nobis pacem.
elisedance
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« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2013, 11:36:46 AM »

The really great teachers can be either or both as needed, even with the same student ...
I beg to differ - the best teachers I've ever had were neither ever.  The taught primarily by teaching you how to teach yourself.

Its a bit like the old 'give a man a loaf and you feed him for a day, give him a spade and you feed him for life'. 
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
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