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Author Topic: Falling  (Read 11753 times)
Some guy
Intermediate Silver
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Posts: 1465


« Reply #45 on: September 23, 2009, 03:09:15 PM »

As far as I know, Victor Fung uses this approach... and has used it all his life.  That's pretty high level.   
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pruthe
Bronze
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Posts: 274



« Reply #46 on: September 23, 2009, 05:42:12 PM »

SG,

Yes, that's pretty high level. Thanks.  Still trying to make things simple in my mind. :-)

pruthe
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"It's not what you do, but how you do it."

"The Truth in Ballroom Dance is found in the Basic steps."

A.S.
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
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Posts: 35042


ee


« Reply #47 on: September 24, 2009, 09:18:10 AM »

*Bringing in Elise's and TD's word, "lowering", it seems that this is the state in which the legs are when the body has taken a step to prevent the fall.  I think it's very important to note here that lowering (by Elise's and TD's definition) is always a result of an action, and never an action in itself.  I used to "lower" before every movement (like my first coach asked me to) and I injured my knees and ankles for life.  I have still seen coaches teach their students to lower before any movement, and surprise surprise, those students are wearing knee braces after a few months.  I even saw a lady having to put glitter and stones on her knee brace so that she could wear it for her competition. 

I think what we are learning over and over here is - you should be very wary of anything that does not feel both natural and comfortable for the body.  Amazingly (to me, see other topic), this is also true for shaping which looks lke it must be so unnatural when viewed but (as I am now learning it) feels a comfortable way to dance.

The real point (again reitterating) is that great dancing is when people do amazing things while looking like its no effort.  I think that is the best measure of your dance-learning success.
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Some guy
Intermediate Silver
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Posts: 1465


« Reply #48 on: September 24, 2009, 11:05:53 AM »

The real point (again reitterating) is that great dancing is when people do amazing things while looking like its no effort. 
If I may be so bold, I've been told by a renowned world finalist that it looks like its no effort because it really is no effort.
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elisedance
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« Reply #49 on: September 24, 2009, 12:26:36 PM »

Thats exactly what I tried to say but I guess I did not quite get there Smiley

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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
TangoDancer
Open Bronze
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Posts: 736



« Reply #50 on: September 26, 2009, 03:59:17 AM »

Is division technique used in other schools of thought besides Body? I was under impression that Traditional school uses non-division technique (i.e lower to move). But what about the other schools of thought. I once asked a coach about concern of knee/ankle injury during lower/down. He said injury is more likely if twisting of knee/ankle occurs during lower/down vs not twisting. I don't think this coach was of Body school. Anyway, I was wondering how prevalent division technique is, especially with high level dancers.

I do know of some Round School teacers who teach this, but generally it's a Body School thing, I believe.
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
elisedance
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« Reply #51 on: October 29, 2009, 05:31:13 AM »

I had to copy this post over here (hope you guys don't mind) since its teh best analogy of falling that I think Ihave read yet:

I don't know if "out of balance" is the phrase I'd use.  I think of it as "dynamic balance", in which the downward pull of gravity is being offset by the forward motion (or whatever direction you happen to be moving in).

My teacher didn't allow us to call it "off balance" or "out of balance". He said that as every molecule is always in perfect balance with one another at all times, then there is no such thing as being “off balance” or "out of balance". He said that we might be in a balance that we didn’t want to be in but that should never be called “off balance” or "out of balance". He also said that as you got better your perception of balance would change. You would be able to move further before getting to a point of being in a balance you wouldn’t want to be in.

Quote
In American football, they have a phrase for this: "downhill runner", meaning a runner who uses the pull of gravity to help him move forwards.  Such a runner is very hard to tackle, because if you jump on his back and try to drag him down, you are in effect just helping him run harder. 

I would also agree that we use a similar method when we move. I think the action they in American football call “downhill runner” is what we call “fall” or “falling”. I am not suggesting that we would get tackled (even if it sometimes feels or looks like it) but couples will have a hard time keeping up with a couple that uses this method (falling) of movement.

Dora-Satya Veda


Thanks!~
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Dora-Satya Veda
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Posts: 6871


« Reply #52 on: October 29, 2009, 04:05:02 PM »

Is division technique used in other schools of thought besides Body? I was under impression that Traditional school uses non-division technique (i.e lower to move). But what about the other schools of thought. I once asked a coach about concern of knee/ankle injury during lower/down. He said injury is more likely if twisting of knee/ankle occurs during lower/down vs not twisting. I don't think this coach was of Body school. Anyway, I was wondering how prevalent division technique is, especially with high level dancers.

The division technique is used in the Square and the Body School. The Traditional School doesn't use the division technique at all. The Traditional School of Thought squeeze into the knee and then push out of the standing leg.
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"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #53 on: October 29, 2009, 04:09:21 PM »

I do know of some Round School teacers who teach this, but generally it's a Body School thing, I believe.

I know many of the top teachers of the Round School had lessons with the founder of the Body School. Also remember that when you reach a really high level then you understand the other paths to the top and are able to understand and explain other ways of doing it right. I think TD are talking about some really high level teachers here.
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"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
pruthe
Bronze
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Posts: 274



« Reply #54 on: October 30, 2009, 12:40:30 PM »

The division technique is used in the Square and the Body School. The Traditional School doesn't use the division technique at all. The Traditional School of Thought squeeze into the knee and then push out of the standing leg.

Thanks for that information. Much appreciated.
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"It's not what you do, but how you do it."

"The Truth in Ballroom Dance is found in the Basic steps."

A.S.
samina
Silver
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Posts: 1584



« Reply #55 on: October 30, 2009, 01:13:30 PM »

great thread. funny timing to see it updated right now... i was reflecting just yesterday on how i've lost the fear of falling in my life, and was wondering how that would translate to my standard dancing. was also noting the tremendous changes in my body mechanics this past year, which allow me to be freer and to release with more ease. and how losing the fear of falling in life is so incredibly liberating.

the past year has been such a personal journey of change off the dance floor, and it's always such a joy to see how that change carries over to the dance floor when i do hit it. liberating self = liberating one's dance. Cheesy
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Some guy
Intermediate Silver
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Posts: 1465


« Reply #56 on: October 30, 2009, 04:21:16 PM »

That's wonderful to here Samina!  I suspect that you and I have a lot to talk about now, more than ever. 
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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #57 on: October 30, 2009, 06:36:33 PM »

I think cornut's post on running backs finally put this in perspective - the trouble with the term 'falling' is that it implies to me a downward motion whereas what I think we are talking about is really a 'toppling' one...
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Dora-Satya Veda
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Posts: 6871


« Reply #58 on: October 30, 2009, 09:36:58 PM »

We should "fall" vertically but when done full out it will feel like "falling" flat on the face.

DSV
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"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
elisedance
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Posts: 35042


ee


« Reply #59 on: October 31, 2009, 05:18:23 AM »

See, that confuses me.  I can fall verticaly while moving forward at speed - it does not feel like I am going to fall forwards - perhaps only if my forward motion is stopped...
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
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