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Author Topic: Should a pro/am that competed as a pro be allowed to continue pro/am?  (Read 1676 times)
elisedance
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ee


« on: July 16, 2009, 07:57:52 AM »

At this year's Blackpool one of the pros competed with his pro/am student in the professional standard - presumably for a large sum of money (earned I suppose because the pro was in essence selling his credibility).  Needless to say, they lost.

There are many questions that arise from this but I am particularly interested in: 'Should that pro/am who has declared herself as a pro even at the highest levels of the sport be permitted to compete against other pro/ams?'
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Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2009, 09:05:49 AM »

At this year's Blackpool one of the pros competed with his pro/am student in the professional standard - presumably for a large sum of money (earned I suppose because the pro was in essence selling his credibility).  Needless to say, they lost.

There are many questions that arise from this but I am particularly interested in: 'Should that pro/am who has declared herself as a pro even at the highest levels of the sport be permitted to compete against other pro/ams?'

I counted 6 couples that were pro/am couples in the rising star professional event (I didn't look in the open event). I spoke to some of the judges (actually judging this year and last year) and they said that some of them were told that from now on, they (the am) are professional. It is really up to the organizers and competitors to keep an eye on these ladies (yes, they were all ladies) to make sure they don't dance as amateurs again.

DSV
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elisedance
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« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2009, 07:18:27 PM »

But there are no actual rules against a pro pretending to be a pro/am - there are no rules because there is no organization that oversees pro/am competition.  So although these women could be prevented from doing amateur competition I don't think its possible to stop them from doing pro/am - how would that be enforced?  IN particular because for most competitions as far as I can see, pro/am is seen solely as a means to make money so why would they care?
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etp777
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« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2009, 09:16:04 PM »

NDCA regs won't let you compete as student in pro/am if you've named yourself a pro elsewhere.  Least, that's way I read it.
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elisedance
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« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2009, 09:41:40 PM »

But have you ever heard of anyone being turned down? 
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malakawa
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« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2009, 09:44:20 PM »

NDCA regs won't let you compete as student in pro/am if you've named yourself a pro elsewhere.  Least, that's way I read it.

this is what i read also.
But have you ever heard of anyone being turned down? 

haven't heard for now.
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emeralddancer
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« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2009, 01:42:40 PM »

why does it really matter?
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etp777
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« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2009, 01:52:47 PM »

The argument is that it's unfair for a proam student to have to compete against someone who was a pro.  If it's someone who moved up and never should have, fine.  But say Morgan, Andrei Abrashin's new partner this year, decided to go back to proam.  I know if I had to compete about her I'd be a bit miffed.  Has won or taken finals in open rhythm and smooth at both FADS nationals this year, as well as placing well at indepnedent comps.  Rather unfair to expect other students to compete against her.  

Not that I think there's any consideration of her going back to student status.  Smiley  Just know she was pro/am up through last october at least, and went pro this year, so first that came to mind as someone who could possibly do this. 
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emeralddancer
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« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2009, 02:10:30 PM »

i can understand that.
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It is more important who they are as people and only then is it important who they are as dancers.~Marcia Haydee
elisedance
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« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2009, 02:25:39 PM »

if a pro can do pro/am then why not enter all the schollarships and clean up? 

I suppose the real issue is that the distinction between pro and am has been  blurred so much its hard to determine who is who any more.  Maybe it should be abandoned..., but thats another topic Wink
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malakawa
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« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2009, 03:57:21 PM »

the think that it doesn't make sense is that in Pro/am, students whom are actually on a silver level can dance bronze.

of course that they are better than someone whom just started to compete in bronze.

this is the same in one way that i as a pro compete with other pro whom is bronze level and dance for 3 years. and i dance 15 years and i am gold level.  Huh Tongue
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Ginger Rogers did everything Fred Astaire did, but she did it backwards and in high heels.

It takes an athlete to dance, but an artist to be a dancer.
MusicChica
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« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2009, 10:37:55 PM »

the think that it doesn't make sense is that in Pro/am, students whom are actually on a silver level can dance bronze.

of course that they are better than someone whom just started to compete in bronze.

this is the same in one way that i as a pro compete with other pro whom is bronze level and dance for 3 years. and i dance 15 years and i am gold level.  Huh Tongue

A-FREAKING-MEN!!!!!!!!!!!

It's damn embarrassing to have your butt handed to you by somebody who's sandbagging when you're dancing at the correct level--especially when you're 22 and that person is actually in B and dancing down an age level as well. Angry
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elisedance
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« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2009, 02:45:50 AM »

I never took it seriously.  So called 'sandbagging' is a double edged sword.  I paid my dues all the way through, from newcomer to schollarship and at each level there were pro/am competitors that could easily have been two levels higher (or more).  One woman danced for over 9 years and was still in bronze and, whatcha know, she would always win. 

My strategy was to compete till I was in the top three and then move up.  Eventually I was in open and that particular person was still in bronze - but when we met in the changing room it wasn't me that felt intimidated Wink

The other thing I noticed was that at OSB women who competed at high levels would go down one or more - simply because of the reality of the strength of the competition.  Can't say I could really critisize this since it was a move that reflected reality.  Indeed, I competed in open but in retrospect I probably would have truly cometetive at silver Smiley 

Lastly some pro/ams like to compete in many styles (some in almost all - international and American) - if you do its probably natural that you will progress in any one much slower, though your competitors may not realize that you are a generalist.
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
MusicChica
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« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2009, 12:34:33 PM »

Lastly some pro/ams like to compete in many styles (some in almost all - international and American) - if you do its probably natural that you will progress in any one much slower, though your competitors may not realize that you are a generalist.

If they're at the competition all weekend like I am or take any interest at looking at the program for events other than theirs, they will.
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