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Author Topic: Pivots  (Read 8977 times)
Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2009, 01:04:11 AM »

Thanks for the clarification DSV.  I've learned enough to know that the technique for reverse and natural (spin) pivots is very different.  So maybe we can go there soon.

I sad and watched many lessons that my main teacher taught. It was not often that he was teaching a lower level couple, but when he did he really showed me how high level insights can be taught to any level of dancing. This is also true with Spin-Pivots. I was just reminded of this today. It was actually EM that reminded me, so you can thank her for digging that out of my memory.

He would get the couple to do 1 - 3 of Natural Turn and then a Spin Turn as it is danced in its basic form. He would have the couple dance it again and this time stop before the rise was fully finished (the finishing of the rise causes the lady to brush her feet). He would then ask the lady to do a Natural Pivot and then repeat the Spin Turn and the Pivot again and again (why it is called Spin-Pivots). He would often compare them to Overturned Spin Turn but with no shaping or swaying. I will explain a little more in the Body School topic.

Dora-Satya Veda
« Last Edit: July 21, 2009, 11:28:44 AM by Dora-Satya Veda » Logged

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Edward Teller
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« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2009, 06:05:02 AM »

Sorry for the unfortunate absence, and thanks DSV for clarifying very well what I meant.
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elisedance
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« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2009, 06:50:24 AM »

thanks for that DSV - I think I am going to have to try it a bit to understand though...
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Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2009, 11:38:52 AM »

Sorry for the unfortunate absence, and thanks DSV for clarifying very well what I meant.

Hope everything is alright with you TD.  Smiley

I was just trying to clarify according to the Body and Square Schools of Thought as I thought they (Spin-Pivots) were getting confusing and difficult sounding. I am however glad to hear that you agree with me on the clarification. This means that we once again are on the same page when it comes to dance technique.  Wink

We really do need to meet one of these days.  Smiley

DSV
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Edward Teller
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« Reply #34 on: July 22, 2009, 01:57:08 AM »

Hope everything is alright with you TD.  Smiley  We really do need to meet one of these days.  Smiley  DSV 

Thanks, I am well...just busy (which is a good thing in many ways).  And, yes, it will be my selfish pleasure.
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
SwingWaltz
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« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2009, 10:25:40 AM »

Love that step, trying to get it right, getting frustrating!

The problem is with me (lead). We go into the natural pivots following this sequence: hover corte into the corner, come back and collect in promenade position, passing natural into a outside spin, then into single natural pivot, into double syncopated natural pivots, into a single natural pivot and reverse slip pivot out. Love the sequence, but can't excute it nicely.

My problem is that my buttock sticks out ridiculously during the natural pivot. I don't have that problem in any of my other steps, it's just the continuous natural pivots. I tried other ways of entering my natural pivots too, such as starting back from neutral position, or entering after a half natural turn, same problem....buttock sticks out!

Any suggestions please? We've spent 2 whole lessons on it with no great improvements.
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Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2009, 11:00:46 AM »

Love that step, trying to get it right, getting frustrating!

The problem is with me (lead). We go into the natural pivots following this sequence: hover corte into the corner, come back and collect in promenade position, passing natural into a outside spin, then into single natural pivot, into double syncopated natural pivots, into a single natural pivot and reverse slip pivot out. Love the sequence, but can't excute it nicely.

My problem is that my buttock sticks out ridiculously during the natural pivot. I don't have that problem in any of my other steps, it's just the continuous natural pivots. I tried other ways of entering my natural pivots too, such as starting back from neutral position, or entering after a half natural turn, same problem....buttock sticks out!

Any suggestions please? We've spent 2 whole lessons on it with no great improvements.

It is a little difficult to correct without seeing you, but there is a few problems that often happens when the bottom is sticking out (or the “asset” is left in the wrong account (my teacher’s way of saying it)). You are dancing a good entry to the step so it is not the entry to the Spin-Pivots that is the problem. Let me try to explain some of the typical problem when the hip is sticking out.

1) Make sure your feet are on a diagonal stance and that you are dancing the step moving diagonal. The left foot steps diagonal back and you move diagonal back before starting the turn. If you step backward you are encouraging the hip to stick out.

2) Make sure you are using the body to move the left foot back. If you are trying to step back using the leg the leg will not land under the body making the hip stick out.

3) Make sure that both you and your partner keep you les open at all times. If you close the legs then it is difficult to keep the connection which should be the upper thigh. With the upper thigh connection it is almost impossible to stick to bottom out.

I hope this will help you with the hip problem. If is doesn’t then keep asking. There is a solution to every problem. It is your job to find the solution. All the best! Cheesy

DSV
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catsmeow
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« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2009, 08:11:17 PM »

I worked on the natural pivots in waltz last lesson. Like you, the problem was mine and my butt would stick out . In addition I would send my hip forward and sideways at the same time.  Turned out that my blocks were not lined up over one another at the right time and I would turn my pelvis down and forward so that my stomach protuded forward and my asset backwards. Not a pleasant sight when a set of tails doesnt cover up. My instructor had me hold my postion at the beginning of the first pivot and then lifted my pelvis up and forward even though I was quite low in my knees. Then she lined up my spine from head to tail bone making sure my frame was horizontal and not diving downward as it used to be. Once I had that feeling of keeping myself lined up I could enter the pivots without a latin hip motion. Good luck
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SwingWaltz
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« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2009, 09:56:58 PM »

Quote
1) Make sure your feet are on a diagonal stance and that you are dancing the step moving diagonal. The left foot steps diagonal back and you move diagonal back before starting the turn. If you step backward you are encouraging the hip to stick out.

So you mean start the first step kind of pigeon toed? I think one of my problem is that I don't actually finish pivoting on my foot, so my toe isn't facing the direction I'm going.

Quote
2) Make sure you are using the body to move the left foot back. If you are trying to step back using the leg the leg will not land under the body making the hip stick out.

Yes I guess I've been neglecting my body position in that step, it's looks like my feet and bottom are moving, but my body stayed where it was. Saw it on the photo, doesn't look very nice at all. And I guess if I stand up with my body and keep the weight back straight on the standing foot, then my leg will land under my body and tuck my hip in.

I'll try them both when I get to the studio next!  Smiley
« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 10:33:12 PM by elisedance » Logged
Rugby
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« Reply #39 on: September 02, 2009, 10:17:28 PM »

Don't forget to turn your feet as you transfer your weight.  Many people pivot and forget to turn their foot into the new direction as they transfer which causes them to have underturned and slow feet.
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SwingWaltz
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« Reply #40 on: September 02, 2009, 10:25:53 PM »

Don't forget to turn your feet as you transfer your weight.  Many people pivot and forget to turn their foot into the new direction as they transfer which causes them to have underturned and slow feet.

Yep...more than often, I forget turning my foot.  Roll Eyes
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Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #41 on: September 02, 2009, 10:33:48 PM »

So you mean start the first step kind of pigeon toed? I think one of my problem is that I don't actually finish pivoting on my foot, so my toe isn't facing the direction I'm going.

In Spin-Pivots the Feet should stay parallel at all times. A common mistake is to forget to turn the feet keep parallel feet make the feet end up turned out. You may feel that the feet are pigeon toed if you are used to having the feet turned out. One of my teachers used to call it “diagonal Sumo Position” with the body vertical to the floor. You and your partner then create a common center because of the diagonal movement.

Quote
Yes I guess I've been neglecting my body position in that step, it's looks like my feet and bottom are moving, but my body stayed where it was. Saw it on the photo, doesn't look very nice at all. And I guess if I stand up with my body and keep the weight back straight on the standing foot, then my leg will land under my body and tuck my hip in.


In the Body and the Square School you always move the body to move the feet. So the body moves before the foot gets placed.

I feel a little worried about the idea about tucking the hip in. The hip should hang in a neural position and not be tucked in. You can’t move if you tuck the hips in. You will work against the natural swing of the leg. We might just be playing with words but it doesn’t sound right to me. You might have left your center out and thereby giving the impression that you hip is out where it might be your center that is out. Work a little more on it and hopefully you will soon be doing them really well.  Wink Cheesy

DSV
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Edward Teller
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« Reply #42 on: September 02, 2009, 11:00:26 PM »

Don't forget to turn your feet as you transfer your weight.  Many people pivot and forget to turn their foot into the new direction as they transfer which causes them to have underturned and slow feet.

Yep...more than often, I forget turning my foot.  Roll Eyes

I should make it clearer.  I have learned that it is not during the spin but rather as you transfer your weight to go into the next spin, so between the spins to prepare for the next one.  Not that I remember all the time myself, as my instructor can attest to.
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Everyone tries to rush up through the syllabus levles and think once they are at the top they have arrived.  What they don't realize is that by doing this it is like skimming through a book, you may get the gist but you will never understand the story.
cdnsalsanut
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« Reply #43 on: October 02, 2009, 05:15:03 PM »

As a lowly silver standard dancer I'm just learning this technique. 

We have a natural spin turn/reverse pivot as a part of our waltz and qs routines.  I was taught not to rise on 1 and 2 of the spin turn, then rise late on the 2 and into the 3 on what is then the reverse pivot, coming down at the end of the pivot and the end of the 3.  This seems to work well. 
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elisedance
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« Reply #44 on: October 02, 2009, 07:16:38 PM »

I don't think you ever stop learning pivots Smiley   For me th emost important thing is to do CBM and then CBMP = and when you think you have done enough do some more Smiley
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