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Author Topic: 'analytical' or 'aware' - which is the best way to learn?  (Read 5666 times)
Some guy
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Posts: 1465


« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2009, 11:12:01 AM »

However, the very first step in my learning process my coach (and pro/am partner) demonstrates a step sequence and may point out a particular step feature; next I dance it and then I learn its details.  Thus, instead of dancing and then then later learning I do both in fairly rapid succession.

Actually Elise, I didn't think about it too carefully until I read your thread.  What you described is what I like to do as well.  So I guess the key for me (and you) is that we "do" it first and then learn the little intricacies that beautify it. 
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emeralddancer
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Nottingham, MD (by way of NJ)


« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2009, 11:23:20 AM »

However, the very first step in my learning process my coach (and pro/am partner) demonstrates a step sequence and may point out a particular step feature; next I dance it and then I learn its details.  Thus, instead of dancing and then then later learning I do both in fairly rapid succession.

Actually Elise, I didn't think about it too carefully until I read your thread.  What you described is what I like to do as well.  So I guess the key for me (and you) is that we "do" it first and then learn the little intricacies that beautify it. 

yes yes, putting it this way is me too!!!!
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It is more important who they are as people and only then is it important who they are as dancers.~Marcia Haydee
elisedance
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« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2009, 01:42:34 PM »

I'm lucky - old pro was open minded and let me try what I wanted.  Even better, new pro seems to have been trained in the same way - and we have traced a 'training lineage' that tracks back to MentorMum. 

Love the MM designation Smiley
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
emeralddancer
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Posts: 2979

Nottingham, MD (by way of NJ)


« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2009, 01:49:05 PM »

I'm lucky - old pro was open minded and let me try what I wanted.  Even better, new pro seems to have been trained in the same way - and we have traced a 'training lineage' that tracks back to MentorMum. 

Love the MM designation Smiley

so from now on we can us MM and we know who we are referring to? huh? mmm? please? lol
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It is more important who they are as people and only then is it important who they are as dancers.~Marcia Haydee
Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2009, 02:04:52 PM »

So I guess the key for me (and you) is that we "do" it first and then learn the little intricacies that beautify it. 

That is how I learned it as well. Wink

Dora-Satya Veda
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"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2009, 02:10:24 PM »

MentorMum. 

Love the MM designation Smiley

That is a great definition. The only problem is my MentorMum (MM) upgraded me to “sister”, so I guess that would make her my MentorSister (MS). Can’t wait to tell her that when I see her next.  Smiley Grin

Good idea Elise

Dora-Satya Veda
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"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
elisedance
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« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2009, 02:15:32 PM »

....So I guess the key for me (and you) is that we "do" it first and then learn the little intricacies that beautify it. 

DSV just quoted this but its put so well I had to quote it too Smiley

What we have to deal with here though - in order for others to understand - is how do we 'do' it first?

For a follower its not so hard to imagine (though still takes a leap of faith) but for a leader how DO you do it first before you know how to do it?  It seems as if considerable L brain activity has to occur before you can even try.

Is there an answer to that?  I suspect a lot of leaders would love to know!
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Some guy
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Posts: 1465


« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2009, 03:48:52 PM »

Hmm, this is certainly quite thought-provoking.  I think the "doing it" part of it is going to be unique to each individual's learning style but I'll share my most recent experience on this:  

Just last weekend I helped a lady learn the Natural Turn in a Waltz and the Reverse Turn in a Foxtrot.  She saw me in the studio doing my Natural Turns consistently and she wanted me to take a moment to see what she was missing in her movement.  I was quite flattered by her request, so I took a look and saw that her energy was very different from what I was doing.  I didn't want to try and "fix" her, 'cause that would require me to actually know something about the lady's Waltz Natural Turn.  Grin    Instead, I thought I'd let her discover what a Natural Turn should be like. I wasn’t afraid to help her because she had been dancing for 2-years already and I knew that she knew how to do it.  I only had to figure out how to put her right brain in the driver’s seat (and consequently, lock up her left brain in the trunk, bound and gagged).  
  
The first thing I had to do was to disarm her, get through her reptilian brain's defenses.  

Some of the other folks here will be better able to explain what the reptilian brain is and what it does (paging DSV!) but basically its function is to protect you.  So it acts as a “judge” and in its quest to protect you it rejects new information that contradicts with information that it has previously accepted.  So in my particular case, the lady I was dealing with had about 2-years of Natural Turn information that she had paid $90/hour for.  I couldn’t start a dialogue with her ‘cause that would be akin to a full frontal assault on her “judge”.  In the few minutes I had to help her there was no way I would win that battle.  So I had to fight dirty.  

My coach frequently uses a right-brained technique that works very effectively on me.  His technique involves making me do something without letting me realize I’m doing it.  That way, after I’ve done it, I have no excuse to say that it's “hard”, “impossible”, “I don’t understand”, etc.  After every lesson I always feel like I’ve been sucker-punched with the information I needed.    

With that in mind, I got her to leave behind all her previous "baggage" and information that she had gathered over the years by telling her to forget that she's in a dance studio and to think of what we were about to do as a fun little game: NOT a DANCE.  I kept telling her to forget that we were dancing, let alone doing a Waltz Natural Turn.   I went through some motions with her and it took her about 5-minutes to truly let go.  The minute she let go of the concepts that she had of a Waltz Natural Turn, she was able to imitate exactly what I was doing without me having to mention any aspect of the technique involved.  It took her a while to realize that what I was doing was a disguised Natural Turn.  When she was comfortable with the movement without any warning I took out the "disguises" and made her do a full scale Natural Turn.  I went through about 3 more Natural Turns before it clicked in her mind what she was doing.  She was quite amazed at what she had done, or rather, what she had ALWAYS been able to do. 

So in effect, by making her just "do" it, I starved her information-hungry left-brain and only fed her right brain with the images necessary to co-ordinate the action.  Within 10 minutes, she was able to do the Waltz Natural Turn just the way she had always pictured it.  She got so excited that she wanted to know if the same approach would work for the Foxtrot Reverse Turn.  Well, with her right brain in the driver’s seat, it took her all of about 1-minute of dancing to be able to do it better than she had ever been able to.  

I think I was as surprised as she was as I myself made the switch to right-brained dancing only a few months ago.  So there’s not too much I know about this subject except my own experiences.  
« Last Edit: April 14, 2009, 04:15:05 PM by Some guy » Logged
Some guy
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« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2009, 03:50:27 PM »

Oh dear!  I just saw how long my post was!  My apologies... and no, you can't have back the life you wasted reading my post!  Embarrassed
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elisedance
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« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2009, 04:35:20 PM »

Its a great account and mirrors what I now do every  time I try to learn - relax make my body as aware as possible, establish a connection with my partner that is not loose, not tight but 'responsive'.  And then let him lead.  To think it took 9 years to learn to just wait and respond.

But you don't answer the other question: how does the LEAD pick up the routine?  Do you do it by watching another lead? Or being back led (odd term) by a follow?
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Some guy
Intermediate Silver
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Posts: 1465


« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2009, 04:41:04 PM »

As a "lead", I concentrate on "doing" what I know to myself.  If I dance myself properly, the follower will have no problem at all.

As for left brain activity, I think the only the only thing I would consider to be left brained activity when I dance is the figures themselves.  I tell myslef, "natural turn", "spin turn", etc.  The figure itself is executed by the right brain.  My body position, frame, pretty much anything I'm in control of, I try to entrust to me right brain to do.  I don't know if this is the correct approach or not, but it's certainly an extremely enjoyable and empowering way of dancing.  I'll be putting it the test in a few competitions coming up. 
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QPO
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Adelaide South Australia


« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2009, 08:58:08 PM »



DP is now having to wait another 6 years :-) for me to do the same...Lets hope I can be a fast learner...but alas I think I am normal.

Its a great account and mirrors what I now do every  time I try to learn - relax make my body as aware as possible, establish a connection with my partner that is not loose, not tight but 'responsive'.  And then let him lead.  To think it took 9 years to learn to just wait and respond.

But you don't answer the other question: how does the LEAD pick up the routine?  Do you do it by watching another lead? Or being back led (odd term) by a follow?
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Dance is a delicate balance between perfection and beauty.  ~Author Unknown
Dance Forum
QPO
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« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2009, 09:00:34 PM »

Long Posts!!!! :-)


If they have someone good and valid to say...they are good...if they waffle  ...uuuuuuuu my mother always said if I cant say anything nice....

Oh dear!  I just saw how long my post was!  My apologies... and no, you can't have back the life you wasted reading my post!  Embarrassed
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Dance is a delicate balance between perfection and beauty.  ~Author Unknown
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elisedance
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« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2009, 09:53:46 PM »

well, that was definitely one of the former - and I see long good posts as a real and appreciated gift to the forum. 
thanks SG...
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Dora-Satya Veda
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Posts: 6871


« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2009, 01:45:39 AM »

Oh dear!  I just saw how long my post was!  My apologies... and no, you can't have back the life you wasted reading my post!  Embarrassed

You did a great job explaining the RB idea from a responder’s point of view. Well done!!! Don’t worry about making a lot post what you said was to the point and clear. I liked it.

Dora-Satya Veda
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"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
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