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Author Topic: Steps you hate  (Read 5152 times)
cornutt
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« Reply #45 on: September 14, 2009, 08:54:30 PM »

yep you are right and THAT is what messed up my knee the other week. grrrrrrrrrr

Closing your feet hurt your knee?  Or did you mean the weight transfer?
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TangoDancer
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« Reply #46 on: September 15, 2009, 04:55:36 AM »

heel turns,, really struggle to make them look good!

Intricate, but not so difficult, actually. Can definitely help. What exactly is the issue?
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
TangoDancer
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« Reply #47 on: September 15, 2009, 04:59:49 AM »

i hate closing the feet in waltz ... I wanna glide through them. sigh

Also, usually, a easy fix. the most common reason for this is simply rising too soon and/or too high. Of course, the rise should be at ther end of the glide, but ascertain that there need be only enough rise to bring the feet together (it's the only reason the rise is there).
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
QPO
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Adelaide South Australia


« Reply #48 on: September 15, 2009, 08:43:24 AM »

heel turns,, really struggle to make them look good!

Intricate, but not so difficult, actually. Can definitely help. What exactly is the issue?

I think part of the problem is that I was trying to do the heel turns on both heels but worked out that I only need to heel turn on one heel. I find also that I try to lift the toes to high thinking I have to definitely define the heel turn. and finally I feel that I dont have the time to do it as by the time I have attempted to do them my partner has already moved on to another step and I cant finish it to make it look neat. Roll Eyes
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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #49 on: September 15, 2009, 08:47:21 AM »

Learning that the heels don't actually come together until the end of the turn - spiral the foot combined with a rapid transfer of the weight onto the toes at the end improved my heel turns immesurably.  But TD promised to answer so I'm sure I will learn more from his input...
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

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TangoDancer
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« Reply #50 on: September 18, 2009, 04:18:32 AM »

heel turns,, really struggle to make them look good!

Intricate, but not so difficult, actually. Can definitely help. What exactly is the issue?

I think part of the problem is that I was trying to do the heel turns on both heels but worked out that I only need to heel turn on one heel. I find also that I try to lift the toes to high thinking I have to definitely define the heel turn. and finally I feel that I dont have the time to do it as by the time I have attempted to do them my partner has already moved on to another step and I cant finish it to make it look neat. Roll Eyes

Hmm, a couple of things... 1- You mention turning on 1 heel vs 2. I am certain that you know that "heel turn" is actually a misnomer. One shouldn't be turning on the heels. When we dance, the posture is upright and "forward" over the arches of the feet (CPA), yes? Heel turn means weight slightly back of center toward the heels, as opposed to, say, a toe pivot which is simply weighted forward of center toward the toes... not literally on the balls of the feet (toes). You might be backweighted resulting in retarding the turn and fighting balance and smoothness. 2- Not having time would indicae to me that the first point is key. It is impossible for the lead to not have time to do a heel turn since it is led by the follow, no?
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
TangoDancer
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« Reply #51 on: September 18, 2009, 04:24:43 AM »

Learning that the heels don't actually come together until the end of the turn - spiral the foot combined with a rapid transfer of the weight onto the toes at the end improved my heel turns immesurably.  But TD promised to answer so I'm sure I will learn more from his input...

No worries, ED. I have seen this many times. Though it is acceptable in that it does make for a snappy look, I usually discourage it b/c it can also cause the man to have to dance a wider (side) step in order to float the turn. I generally find it better to pull the forward foot in at the immediate feeling of imbalance, thus turning w/ the feet together in a askewed position (similar to that of a tango close), and allow the man to create the snap at the end by dancing forward on the passing step. Having said that, if what you are doing is working for you, .......  Wink
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
elisedance
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« Reply #52 on: September 18, 2009, 04:46:57 AM »

I have seen that done and it gives the foot work a very tidy look.  I'm going to fool around with it ans see if I can do both (that will confuse my partner!).  I wonder if there is a size issue here - the women I have seen do the feet together first method hvae tended to be shorter but I have no idea if that is generally the case. 
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Some guy
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« Reply #53 on: September 18, 2009, 11:03:01 AM »

I agree with TD.  Heel turns are a misnomer.  Not that I know much about the lady's steps, but attempting to take a stab at it from a man's perspective, it seems that when I dance it with the top ladies, their weight appears to be on one foot during the heel turn.  There's a very subdued but crisp weight transfer that makes the heel turn a delight to dance.  It's almost like her weight is only really on one foot at a time during the heel turn.  The beginner ladies I dance with seem to transfer their full body weight on to both heels, completing the turn, THEN transferring full body weight onto the new standing foot and taking the next step.  I think one of the reasons ladies get "left behind" by their partners is because the lady doesn't transfer weight quickly enough to the other foot during the "heel turn". 

In my experience, I have "left" my lady when she transfers her weight only AFTER the heel turn has been completed.  My current coach's approach somehow makes the lady's weight transfer between feet seemless during the heel turn, and no longer do I find myself leaving my lady.  I used to dread this step because we would both get "stuck" after the completion of the heel turn, because it used to kill our momentum going into it and then we couldn't restart our momentum.  Now the entrance into and out of the step is seemless and effortless.  Now it's one of my favorites!

When in doubt, I have learned that the "Body School" approach actually has the potential to teach one's self the correct footwork.  My partner said that the way she is doing it now is the way she always wanted to do it (naturally) but our prior coaches were too hung on on the terms "heel" and "turn". 
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cornutt
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« Reply #54 on: September 18, 2009, 05:26:38 PM »


I think part of the problem is that I was trying to do the heel turns on both heels

Guys learn pretty quickly not to do them that way, especially if they're wearing patent leathers.    Shocked Cheesy  Seriously, I've seen the pull-the-trailing-foot-in-late thing.  In fact, the senior instructor at our studio does them that way, but I've never to duplicate the clean look that he gets from doing it, so I gave up trying that.  Instead, I go ahead and bring the feet together, but I don't transfer the weight until I'm about ready to stop the turn.  At that point, I go to the other foot, and then in pretty quick sequence I shift towards the toe to make the turn stop.   I don't know how good this technique really is, but it seems to work for me. 

My instructor is going to kill me if she sees this, but... I learned how to control the center of pressure on the feet by doing it on the kitchen floor in my socks.  Until I did that for a while, I could never feel where the center of pressure was when I had shoes on.

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SwingWaltz
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« Reply #55 on: September 19, 2009, 09:37:17 AM »

Officially hate the hairpin!  Angry
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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #56 on: September 19, 2009, 01:57:15 PM »

on the heel turn - a common problem for the woman is to keep her balance over the heels after the turn.  To me the heel turn is like one part of a pendulum action, you come round on the heel but then immediately transfer the weight forward onto the soles as you 'fall' into the exit.  That prevents you getting stuck.  It takes a bit of practise to get used to that swing in, swing out motion but it is key to continue moving without a jerk.
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Ginger
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I see what you did there.


« Reply #57 on: September 22, 2009, 02:35:51 AM »

Well, LORD DAVID HAMILTON says:

I dunno, I just thought I'd say he was awesome, and that he probably has something to say about heel turns, since he's awesome.

That's all.
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TangoDancer
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« Reply #58 on: September 23, 2009, 02:49:30 AM »


I agree with TD. 

In my experience, I have "left" my lady when she transfers her weight only AFTER the heel turn has been completed. 

on the heel turn - a common problem for the woman is to keep her balance over the heels after the turn.  To me the heel turn is like one part of a pendulum action, you come round on the heel but then immediately transfer the weight forward onto the soles as you 'fall' into the exit. 

Thanks, SG. As an add to ED, you are correct. The primary error from ladies in this movement is "rising" out of the heel turn (I know, often the fault of the lead). For those of you who might not know, the lady should rise (lift the heels from the floor), but should flex the knees to absorb the body rise before extending the recovering leg/foot. Also, dance over the ball of the recovery foot before the lower to finish the movement.
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
mummsie
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« Reply #59 on: September 23, 2009, 06:28:54 PM »

I hate pendulums in the quickstep.  In the social class last night we had them - nobody did it correctly and we all looked stupid bobbing up and down.   Cheesy mummsie
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