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Author Topic: The legend - Michael Jackson  (Read 5924 times)
malakawa
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Posts: 830



« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2009, 02:03:21 PM »

Sorry for your loss TD - you see people so totally different when you have a personal contact...

doesn't have to be.

i grew up with his music. and i will miss him.
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Ginger Rogers did everything Fred Astaire did, but she did it backwards and in high heels.

It takes an athlete to dance, but an artist to be a dancer.
Rugby
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« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2009, 09:27:04 PM »

Like him or not...there was Elvis, then there was Michael...both will live forever for their contributions to the music and entertainment industry.

Michael was a friend of mine (not close, but nonetheless). Despite his celebrity, the good and the bad, I knew him as a quiet, introverted, baby-voiced guy with an illusive childhood/teenhood, who just wanted to view the world through rose colored glasses, and hope beyond reality that one day it would turn into the world that he saw. I will miss him.

You know that is how I thought of him too though I didn't know him personally.  There are so many bad people out there that it's a loss for everyone when we lose someone with a good heart.  Sure he was weird but so am I and I try to have a good heart.  We have to accept people how they are because we don't know what caused them to be that or if we would not be the same under the same conditions.   
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Everyone tries to rush up through the syllabus levles and think once they are at the top they have arrived.  What they don't realize is that by doing this it is like skimming through a book, you may get the gist but you will never understand the story.
Ginger
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Posts: 497

I see what you did there.


« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2009, 11:11:00 PM »

I generally agree with Rugby, and bear in mind that my argument is NOT with Rugby personally, but with that statement, as I've heard it before- but that doesn't apply to every situation. Furthermore, it is only my opinion and intended to be used however one chooses. If I've forgotten any "flame me in private if you choose, but if it gets sticky, keep it off the board" disclaimers/caveats/bunnies, let me know.

As a child, I had an anti-idyllic home life. There's not a facet of my life, my character, or my personality that hasn't been poisoned influenced by my environment and these influences growing up,. As an adult, I should try not to be the obnoxious, vituperative, argumentative, stubborn, generally bad person that isn't uncovered until the thin,  "crazy but kinda fun" patina starts to fade. It's a daily battle within my own brain to try to just be one of the normals, nod my head, and go on without making unpleasant waves.  I'm aware of my cerebral predicament, and treat it like a contagious disease with which I don't want to harm or infect other people.

I cite the same call on people who abuse children and animals, commit injurious crimes, and wear crocs and then try to cry "Bad Childhood!" "Unsavory External Influences!" Yes- for a LOT of things that can fly, but not just being an anti-social monster who fights at every turn conventional assimilation.

In MJ's case, I honestly don't think whatever he did- if he did it- was that big a deal- a lot of people get pissed off and cry slut, child molester, peeping tom, whatever, when really they're the ones who peed on their sweet deal somehow. You think someone's a child molester, why the hell would you take your child to his home and leave him unattended? I don't care if it's the Pope- if you think your child might be endangered, I don't care how many giraffes he has in his back yard or albums he's sold, it's one's job as a parent to take preventive, pro-active precautions in the best interest of their children.  If you know something's bad, don't visit/smell/look at/touch/fall in/otherwise expose yourself to it.

It's globally ascertained that child molestation and mayhem is BAD BAD BAD-  If someone I personally knew thinks that they might become such a person under *any* circumstance, I don't want to know them or be around them.

True, others in MJ's and other devastating scenarios, nobody knows if they'd have turned out 'just fine' or 'a little imbalanced'... but I doubt any sane person unless they were just plain nasty, would be a chester. Weird, unique, even awful are one thing (things)- harming a defenseless human or animal is quite another that isn't generally justifiable- but then again, I cite The Patina Erosion of Ginger in one of the other rambly paragraphs.
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TangoDancer
Open Bronze
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Posts: 736



« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2009, 12:54:36 AM »

MJ was not a child molester. He didn't do it...either time. His only crime was placing himself in positions to be taken advantage of.
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
Ginger
Bronze
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Posts: 497

I see what you did there.


« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2009, 03:00:57 AM »

*Even* if he was. Not *because* he was.

I do wish whatever'd happened to his nose hadn't, though. Was it actinomyces? A friend of mine *died* from complications from that.
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Dora-Satya Veda
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Posts: 6871


« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2009, 09:22:40 AM »

I think MJ did have a very big impact on both music and dance in the time that he was with us. He was a great gift to the world of music and dance. IMHO he did some truly remarkably cleaver things with both the music he produced and the dance movements that he promoted. His talent and ability will be missed. What he had planned for his upcoming performance in England will forever be left to our imagination.

I must say I am grateful for him sharing his talent and ability with the world.

What he did with his life (I believe) is not for us to judge. I think everybody chooses how they respond to the life they have and we have to care enough for our fellow man to allow him/her to live it the way they see fit.

Dora-Satya Veda
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"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
Ginger
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I see what you did there.


« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2009, 12:44:45 PM »

Charles Manson is a brilliant (if completely psychotic) man and frankly, he's damned charismatic to listen to when he speaks.  Some of his slightly more lucid philosophies are quite interesting to hear and really make you think about the state of things. Not to compare MJ to CM, but, playing DA for a moment, *hypothetically* assuming the allegations were true on MJ (again , I don't think THOSE were, but he was definitely an eccentric and unique character- not criminal on their own)... then how would we feel about him? Would his contributions to music be enough to shadow the fact that he (again, hypothetically) was a criminal?

I respect that you choose not to judge him. I personally don't, but if I found out that Elise was an axe murderer, my opinion of her would change a little bit, even if it's not likely that her choice to hack people up affected me.

... she *isn't*, is she?...

Sorry, I'm just not feeling the whole lovey groovy vibe lately. Normally I'd be right on the bandwagon with "brilliant, sensitive, gifted" and all... but all I want right now is Jack in the Box and a couple pivots with Johnny Cash. Nash-Vegas, here I come.
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elisedance
Administrator
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Posts: 35042


ee


« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2009, 10:54:15 PM »

...but if I found out that Elise was an axe murderer, my opinion of her would change a little bit, even if it's not likely that her choice to hack people up affected me.

... she *isn't*, is she?...

EEEEEeeeeeeekkkk!

where did THAT come from.  I don't even own an axe.  Wait a minute I do own an axe, for chopping kindling...
oh dear, now we have a murder weapon....  can one murder kindling?

eeeeeeeeEEEEEEKKKKKK...

now you've done it, I'm scared of my self!
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
QPO
reg mods
Continental Champion
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Adelaide South Australia


« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2009, 01:19:19 AM »

elise in the wood shed with the axe....has that been added to Cleudo? Shocked
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Ginger
Bronze
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Posts: 497

I see what you did there.


« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2009, 05:38:01 AM »

Ah, I promise to jump off the MJ thread (after this, obviously)- I have no business here debating- and besides that, it serves NO purpose.

Had a nice trip to Nashvegas today with the boys. Slim crowd at DW, but several of the fellas asked me to dance and I was thrilled to dance with all of 'em! Good leads, and Shalene's Really Tall Am Guy even let me try to backlead the ever-lovin' crap out of him out of sure panic-reflex when I couldn't follow something. He was a LOT of fun, and so not intimidating after I figured out I couldn't take him down with my fumbling around.

Much-needed good dance-weekend complete with Jack in the Box egg-rolls and tacos (yes, both, so there).
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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2009, 06:39:15 AM »

G - I thought it funny (the axe thing Wink)... and even though it is unpopular (the MJ bed thing) you do raise a valid point.  I certainly have an issue with someone being able to buy their way out of a heinious crime allegation and an equal revulsion with someones ethics for settling such a crime by being paid.  In what way, shape or form did that settle the issue?  It basically means that the rich have a differerent crimiinal code than the poor - and that our society endorses cash for crime.  Both aspects are depressing even without considering if MJ 'did it' - which, incidentally, I really do not think he did.  It just does not fit the rest of his character.

In my opinion, since we are on the subject, once the parents of the child that was alleged to have bee mollested dropped the charges after being bought off THEY should have been charged with extortion or blackmail.  
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
TangoDancer
Open Bronze
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Posts: 736



« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2009, 12:56:33 AM »

In my opinion, once the parents of the child that was alleged to have been mollested dropped the charges after being bought off THEY should have been charged with extortion or blackmail.  

Agreed.

And to add to DSV's post about his talent, many persons do not know that the wrote music, as well. He actually has written, and was planning to publish, an album of classical music.
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
Rugby
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« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2009, 11:28:55 PM »

I understand how you feel about your childhood Ginger.  I have not been able to get past the crap that my mother laid at my door most of my life.  It was not until the last two years of her life that we got along but truth be told I am still quite bitter toward her and my aunts as well.  Most aspects of my life have been affected and though I know it's silly, I just can't seem to shake it. It was not until a year or so ago that I found out why my mother and her sisters were, dysfunctional I guess you can say, though that may be too strong a word.

As for Michael, alot more stuff about him has been coming out and it's sure not pretty.  People that worked for him are starting to tell a story that does not put him in a good light.   
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Everyone tries to rush up through the syllabus levles and think once they are at the top they have arrived.  What they don't realize is that by doing this it is like skimming through a book, you may get the gist but you will never understand the story.
Skynnyrd
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Posts: 26


Canadian EH!


« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2009, 02:00:30 PM »

When you are in the public eye everything becomes larger and small things always get bigger even if you lead the most humblest of lives they would dig up some dirt to smear you with, Michael Jackson was just a mixed up person who never had a childhood and always just wanted to be a kid like the rest of us got to be, as a musician his accomplishments were great. I am pretty sure if the Inquirer and the other rags were back in the times of Beethoven/Mozart etc time they would have things said about them as well as they were the rockers of their time even their music offended people. MJ RIP.  Cry     
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And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance... I hope you dance
emeralddancer
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Nottingham, MD (by way of NJ)


« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2009, 02:15:41 PM »

When you are in the public eye everything becomes larger and small things always get bigger even if you lead the most humblest of lives they would dig up some dirt to smear you with, Michael Jackson was just a mixed up person who never had a childhood and always just wanted to be a kid like the rest of us got to be, as a musician his accomplishments were great. I am pretty sure if the Inquirer and the other rags were back in the times of Beethoven/Mozart etc time they would have things said about them as well as they were the rockers of their time even their music offended people. MJ RIP.  Cry     

while I did not like him at all for any reason ...just because I didn't like his music and really could care less what the media said and whatnot...I mean after all I was not there ya know? there are always different sides to the stories and somehow the truth gets lost in the muck ...anywhos ...my point being ...most geniuses of art, music, etc ...have a madness in them. quirks that drove people in their lives to either love/hate/use etc those people. including the likes of historical artists. like mozart ... so what makes this generation any different? it is just peoples piccalilli and quirks and stuff are more in focus than say our own. hm ....
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It is more important who they are as people and only then is it important who they are as dancers.~Marcia Haydee
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