On post moderation

[elisedance]

In response to a debate on editing posts on PDO stimulated by the removal of a cartoon we had debate on the issue.  I think it appropriate to post my opinion on this here for future easy access:

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What is missing here I think is an assumption of good will.  If your post dissapears there are two possiblities: a software/connection glitch (something I posted never appeared, twice) or someone removed it.  In this case it was, of course, the latter.

Now, think of how many posts you have made and how many have been altered or deleted?  2/1,000?  For most people here it is 0/1000.  All I ask is that if it happens please FIRST think maybe there was a good reason, think SECOND that there was maybe a mistake and only LAST think this was a vindictive anti-you action.  Much of the conversation on this topic has been versed with spleen, suspicion and distrust.  Before you react, please, pelase ask yourself why on earth would any one here want to treat you badly?  For me this has been a sad eye opener.  As C said, the effort I and others have put into building this place and maintaining it for all seemed to count for absolutely nothing.  Its as if because we are in charge we must therefore be self aggrandizing, out for our own ends or even evil.   People where the heck did that come from???

C put things very well above.  This is a labour of love for me and if it becomes no love and all labour then I am not going to do it.  Perhaps one of you can make a better job of it - but before concluding that please consider everything that we have created here and how the forum has been nurtured and tended by a collective effort of many people but I think you all know that it is mostly by me.  I created the structure, I tried so hard to retain the UTGWT positive attitudes and mutual support and I have created most of the rules that the forum works by - which is to say very few rules at all.  Key to these were areas where (reasonably) extreme opinions could be aired and this particular board where the members could have a say in opperations.  Most forums don't have these aspects, ones that I think make people feel at home and truly a part of the organization.

The only thing I ask for in return is tollerance first for those failings that I may have and second for the few things where I believe I have to act as an autocrat for practical reasons, not least of which that this is NOT my job.  It is but a hobby - I do it because I think PDO has a real value.  Though, after the last few days, perhaps not as much as I initially thought.

Just imagine if someone posted a picture of a woman having sex with a dog.  According to 'guidelines' I should contact the poster and ask them to remove it.  I should discuss it with other moderators.  And then with the consensus we could remove it.  What you should note is that if we had tried to discuss the pros and cons of the cartoon in question it took over 3 days for all of the mods to actually comment on the discussion!  What would be the point of removing an offending item at that time?

Thus, to kill this issue once and for all, and you can call me names - Supreme Priestess if you like.  Its just how it is because for all discussion ultimately the responsibility for the content on this forum rests with me.  If I see something on the site that I think is beyond my threshold of acceptablility I am going to delete it.  No prior questions and no prior discussion.  Bang.  If this happens to one of your posts by all means ask me to explain, and I will. If you want to make a case for it being re-instated then by all means get the mod choice to make that case and we will discuss it with an open heart - but it will that way round for anything else is simply unmangeable because of the reasons outlined by C above.  And if you see something of mine that you think is offensive then bang it goes too - assuming of course that the post in question merits deletion on a simple standard and also that the intent of the complaint was for the good of the forum and not the complainer.   By the way, removal is a judgement call and for the record I will err on the 13 side of PG13.  Thats it.  Its become a like-it-or-lump-it issue.  As I pointed out to V earleir we are not equal: I have two differences,. first I am ultimately responsible for the content of the forum and, second, I have the tools to edit.

And before you label me a bigot or dictator and all the other negative characterization please take another look at PDO and what we have achieved here - how much of the exact opposite we have.  For those of you from the other dance site, take a look again at what we DO support and tollerate here rather than focusing on something that I DON"T EVEN THINK ANYONE HERE WANTS!!! Pornography, offensive material, discrimination, bigotry.

And if you want to have the right to post these on PDO I suggest you find a more appropriate forum.

affectionately, respecfully and I hope not too arrogantly
ee
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[elisedance]

Followup and clarification:

Now that we have calmed down a bit on this (all of us I hasten to add) I have decided to un-lock this topic as I find the suppression of discussion both abhorant and counter productive.  But before we jump back into the fray a coupld of comments.

First, I can not promise that posts will not be removed without prior notice to the poster.  This would prevent moderators from deleting spam, overt pornography, racial-sexual-etc bigotry and I don't think anyone here wants that.  The worst of these will be deleted without comment to the forum or the poster without appology.

Second, the next level of forum-incompatible posts will be deleted first but where possible the poster will be informed.  This is where I was not diligent enough.  If you look back at the two posts that were deleted I erased these without contacting the posters but you will also note that I posted a brief anonymous (I did not mention names) comment in the same topic asking the individuals to please be careful.  I wrongly thought that they would trust me not to censor unless I had an excellent reason.  However, I underestimated the emotional reaction - and I must admit that I probably would have reacted the same way.  Once that reaction was started there was no containing it.  So, mea culpa, I have learned (and I hope you will give me the benefit of the doubt here) that a much more personal approach is necessary for such situations.  Note I say 'where possible'.  The reason for that is that sometimes a whole topic must be removed (e/g/ the booze thread) and then it is simply impossible to write an explanation to all the posters.

Third, there are a gray area of posts that are marginal.  I hope these are rare since we all have lives.  The policiy now till be for the mods will discuss these  in the MOD area before coming to some sort of consensus.  However, in the interests of efficiency I have to say that my decision will be final.  In these cases we will contact the poster BEFORE any action is taken.  Since this class of post are likley to represent unplanned double-entendres, I suspect that most people will agree to simply modify the post.

Note, these rules will apply to all members, including the mods and admins.  We try as far as possible to be an equal community.  Note also I am not going to set rules that distinguish between the above catagories - I have great faith in the competence and standards of the Mods and, in any case, all forum areas are moderated by multiple individuals (with a couple of exceptions that I do by myself).

I hope all the members are comfortable with this approach and I thank V for raising the issue of consistency issue but I also ask all members to approach these issues as if the PDO staff really are trying to keep the forum as jus the A1 star when it comes to 'client satisfaction and really do not want a two tier censorship structure.  Errors may occur but please assume, at least in the first place, that these were accidents and not intentional.

Last lastly I do ask that you read this post in its entirely (I will add it to the topic in the announcement area) before making any additional comments.
very best to you all...

ee

[elisedance]

There is another area of editing that is not included below: that necessary to maintain the integrity of a serious topic.  Thus, where there is a discussion of dancing and we indulge in trivial comments or exchanges of repartee these may get deleted without notice.  This really pertains to the 'Partner Dance Catagory' and the more so to the advanced sections.

It is not possible for me to notifiy every poster of every post that is cut - please just bear with me and realize that it is for the integrity of our main subject - dance.  Note also that up to now I think I have cut more of my own posts than anyone elses - and it does not happen often.

One last point on this.  The mods spend a lot of time on PDO tending to the fields as it were - in my case a LOT more time than I can really afford.  I can not always do the niceties with the maintenance of the board and I rely on your support and on the assumption that any editing is done with the best of intentions and NEVER to harm anyone personally and NEVER to manipulate a thread.  If you can't trust me on this then you should either move to replace me or go elsewhere.  I can't see an alternative.

ee