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Author Topic: Keep that tail bone tucked under  (Read 2788 times)
ZPomeroy
Moderator
Intermediate Silver
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Posts: 1464


Victoria, Australia


« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2009, 10:47:16 AM »

The only problem is, is that my butt does stick out excessivly, i can see it quite clearly myself in the studio mirrors.One of my teachers said that it was due to the fact that as my legs go forward my weight does not follow or "roll over" so that tocompensate my body lets go of the tail-bone, so the answer to this was to roll the weight over with any step, but it still seems to be sticking out. Is there any exercises or different thoughts to fix this?

(i tried keeping my hips flexed soto speak, but unless i was not doing it correctly (which could be a serious reason) it didn't seemto be working)

Zac
« Last Edit: July 07, 2009, 10:51:17 AM by ZPomeroy » Logged

Dance is poetry written for the feet, read by the heart, and destined for the soul.
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
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Posts: 35042


ee


« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2009, 01:32:44 PM »

Perhaps you should look at some Luca and Lorraine utube tapes?  Luca has a pronounced sway back - and did I mention they were world champions.....

this link may not work...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gQEik74U7k
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The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Some guy
Intermediate Silver
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Posts: 1465


« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2009, 01:59:28 PM »

The only problem is, is that my butt does stick out excessivly, i can see it quite clearly myself in the studio mirrors.One of my teachers said that it was due to the fact that as my legs go forward my weight does not follow or "roll over" so that tocompensate my body lets go of the tail-bone, so the answer to this was to roll the weight over with any step, but it still seems to be sticking out. Is there any exercises or different thoughts to fix this?

(i tried keeping my hips flexed soto speak, but unless i was not doing it correctly (which could be a serious reason) it didn't seemto be working)

Zac

Whatever you do Zac, please do not try to "tuck your pelvis under".  I know a recent U.S. amateur finalist (now turned pro) who has severe back issues because he was told to do this.  It's VERY dangerous to force your body into an unnatural position.  

As such, here's an exercise I do to set up my lower back in what DSV called "athletic position":
1) walk the length of your ballroom with your head held high.  Walk with confidence and purpose.
2) when you reach the other end of the ballroom, turn around and repeat the same walk: walk again with confidence and purpose, but this time, imagine you're in your house in the middle of the night and you don't want to wake up anybody.  The size of your steps should be the same, the speed should the same, nothing should change except the fact that you're trying to be very quiet.  

What you'll notice is that your pelvic bone will naturally curve a little bit inward.  Your lower back and pelvic bone will position themselves such that they will diffuse the impact your body transmits to your legs, thereby acting like a "silencer".  You might notice a little change in the way your muscles in your feet, legs, and lower back work too.  All your joints will be "slightly flexed" like DSV mentioned.  You will feel your abs engage too.  Maintain this "posture" every time you dance.  

It's important that you don't force any of these actions to happen in isolation.  Each of these actions in isolation (or in the wrong proportion) will be detrimental to your dancing and/or your health.  All these actions combined harmoniously subconsciously will help you dance properly and maintain your good health.  

This posture will also allow you to maximize strength, control and awareness of your movement, from your feet, all the way to your finger tips.  Hence the reason raquet-ball players as well as ping-pong players employ this posture: these two sports embody two extremes of power, control, and awareness required.  The reason this is called "athletic posture" is because it lines up all the major blocks of weight in your body perfectly and aligns the power of your muscles.  It engages the muscles in your feet to make you light and fast on your feet while simultaneously grounding you (thus giving you the ability to experience the illusive concept of "foot pressure").  Grounding yourself makes available to you the strongest force in nature: gravity.  You make gravity work for you instead of against you.  This posture will allow you to "use the floor" and align all your muscles such that individually they will not be working hard, but together, they will produce immense strength, control, power and speed in any particular direction with minimum effort.  

The benefits of this posture are very obvious in martial artists and tennis players as you can see their bodies line up perfectly in this fashion before every move.  The top women in tennis use this posture to serve a ball faster than most men twice their weight in muscles can.  Martial artists use this posture to lift and throw around people double their weight with minimum effort.  Needless to say, it's a very powerful tool.  

The only visual give-away that someone is doing this is the slight "tucking" in of the pelvis.  So most teachers try to get their students to just tuck their pelvis in.  However, tucking of the pelvis is only the result of a multitude of actions (which all happen naturally when we go to the refrigerator in the middle of the night trying not to wake anyone in the house up!).  Good luck Zac!  Your dancing is about to reach a whole new level!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2009, 02:35:52 PM by Some guy » Logged
Dora-Satya Veda
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***
Posts: 6871


« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2009, 09:30:56 PM »

The only problem is, is that my butt does stick out excessivly, i can see it quite clearly myself in the studio mirrors.One of my teachers said that it was due to the fact that as my legs go forward my weight does not follow or "roll over" so that tocompensate my body lets go of the tail-bone, so the answer to this was to roll the weight over with any step, but it still seems to be sticking out. Is there any exercises or different thoughts to fix this?

(i tried keeping my hips flexed soto speak, but unless i was not doing it correctly (which could be a serious reason) it didn't seemto be working)

Zac

Whatever you do Zac, please do not try to "tuck your pelvis under".  I know a recent U.S. amateur finalist (now turned pro) who has severe back issues because he was told to do this.  It's VERY dangerous to force your body into an unnatural position.  

As such, here's an exercise I do to set up my lower back in what DSV called "athletic position":
1) walk the length of your ballroom with your head held high.  Walk with confidence and purpose.
2) when you reach the other end of the ballroom, turn around and repeat the same walk: walk again with confidence and purpose, but this time, imagine you're in your house in the middle of the night and you don't want to wake up anybody.  The size of your steps should be the same, the speed should the same, nothing should change except the fact that you're trying to be very quiet.  

What you'll notice is that your pelvic bone will naturally curve a little bit inward.  Your lower back and pelvic bone will position themselves such that they will diffuse the impact your body transmits to your legs, thereby acting like a "silencer".  You might notice a little change in the way your muscles in your feet, legs, and lower back work too.  All your joints will be "slightly flexed" like DSV mentioned.  You will feel your abs engage too.  Maintain this "posture" every time you dance.  

It's important that you don't force any of these actions to happen in isolation.  Each of these actions in isolation (or in the wrong proportion) will be detrimental to your dancing and/or your health.  All these actions combined harmoniously subconsciously will help you dance properly and maintain your good health.  

This posture will also allow you to maximize strength, control and awareness of your movement, from your feet, all the way to your finger tips.  Hence the reason raquet-ball players as well as ping-pong players employ this posture: these two sports embody two extremes of power, control, and awareness required.  The reason this is called "athletic posture" is because it lines up all the major blocks of weight in your body perfectly and aligns the power of your muscles.  It engages the muscles in your feet to make you light and fast on your feet while simultaneously grounding you (thus giving you the ability to experience the illusive concept of "foot pressure").  Grounding yourself makes available to you the strongest force in nature: gravity.  You make gravity work for you instead of against you.  This posture will allow you to "use the floor" and align all your muscles such that individually they will not be working hard, but together, they will produce immense strength, control, power and speed in any particular direction with minimum effort.  

The benefits of this posture are very obvious in martial artists and tennis players as you can see their bodies line up perfectly in this fashion before every move.  The top women in tennis use this posture to serve a ball faster than most men twice their weight in muscles can.  Martial artists use this posture to lift and throw around people double their weight with minimum effort.  Needless to say, it's a very powerful tool.  

The only visual give-away that someone is doing this is the slight "tucking" in of the pelvis.  So most teachers try to get their students to just tuck their pelvis in.  However, tucking of the pelvis is only the result of a multitude of actions (which all happen naturally when we go to the refrigerator in the middle of the night trying not to wake anyone in the house up!).  Good luck Zac!  Your dancing is about to reach a whole new level!

Wow SG, great post Shocked. Nothing more to say. Grin
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Edward Teller
SwingWaltz
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Posts: 5772


« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2009, 09:33:02 PM »

Yes great post! We all learned a lot.  Smiley
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ZPomeroy
Moderator
Intermediate Silver
****
Posts: 1464


Victoria, Australia


« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2009, 09:38:31 PM »

Thank-you SG, it really feels so natural in that "athletic position", i just realised by doing this, it colmunates everything i've been told by my teachers about the subject in one single movement. Now, to get it to move over to my dancing Wink

Zac
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Dance is poetry written for the feet, read by the heart, and destined for the soul.
Some guy
Intermediate Silver
*
Posts: 1465


« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2009, 12:18:25 PM »

Wow SG, great post Shocked. Nothing more to say. Grin

Thanks DSV, it's all stuff I figured out when I tried things using the 'right' brain.  Hmm... I wonder who taught me that trick.   Grin  Cool
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Some guy
Intermediate Silver
*
Posts: 1465


« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2009, 12:22:20 PM »

Thank-you SG, it really feels so natural in that "athletic position", i just realised by doing this, it colmunates everything i've been told by my teachers about the subject in one single movement. Now, to get it to move over to my dancing Wink

Zac

You're welcome Zac.  Now what you have to ask yourself is, "how on earth was I able to dance WITHOUT this?".  That will help you incorporate it into your dancing faster.

On a side note, I beat the pants off my friends at our friendly ping-pong tournaments now (I used to be terrible at it).  They all want to know "my secret" for improving over night.  Unless they're browsing partner dancing forums, they are not going to find it.  Cheesy
« Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 12:28:21 PM by Some guy » Logged
Some guy
Intermediate Silver
*
Posts: 1465


« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2009, 12:24:37 PM »

Yes great post! We all learned a lot.  Smiley
Thanks SW!  I really can't take credit for it.  Just sharing what someone was generous enough to share with me.   Smiley
« Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 12:27:43 PM by Some guy » Logged
TangoDancer
Open Bronze
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Posts: 736



« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2009, 01:56:53 PM »

Coming back a little late, but still wanted to say.....

GREAT POST, Some Guy!!!  Bravo!
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
Some guy
Intermediate Silver
*
Posts: 1465


« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2009, 02:19:07 PM »

Coming from you TD, that means a lot, thanks!  DSV is the main source of that revelation 'though.   Cheesy

Zac, apparently I hit the nail on the head with that post.  That's your queue to take it to heart and run with it, just as I did.  
« Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 02:21:04 PM by Some guy » Logged
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
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Posts: 35042


ee


« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2009, 06:43:58 PM »

don't run - dancing is like walking Tongue Cheesy
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Some guy
Intermediate Silver
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Posts: 1465


« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2009, 08:40:17 PM »

don't run - dancing is like walking Tongue Cheesy

Touché Elise.  Touché.  Cheesy
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elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
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Posts: 35042


ee


« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2009, 05:04:45 AM »

Grin
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
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