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Author Topic: Tango frame, or lack thereof  (Read 1247 times)
cornutt
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« on: April 12, 2009, 06:41:23 PM »

So during a coaching with Yulia Baranovsky a couple of weeks ago, I discovered that everything I thought I knew about tango frame was wrong.   Shocked  The biggest thing I had to learn was to get my arm around my partner's back more, and not try to do all the leading with my wrist.  The breakthrough was last week when my instructor was showing me the proper hand and forearm position, which is much lower on the partner's back than what I've been doing.  I told her that trying to do that made something feel pinched in my shoulder.  After some of her doing it and me doing it and comparing notes, I realized that she was getting her forearm into position without her shoulder rotating inwards much, which was the part that was hurting me.  I asked her, "How do you do that?" 

We sat down at a table, facing parallel to the table edge.  She had me put my right elbow on the table.  Then she told me, "relax your whole forearm".  That got my arm to the right angle without the shoulder rotation.  After that it was just a matter of how much tone I needed to maintain in the forearm to keep the right angle.  Now I can do tango and my shoulder doesn't hurt anymore!  And my ability to lead fans and rotating figures is improved.


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Medira
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« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2009, 11:43:54 PM »

That's great to hear Cornutt!  It's those lightbulb moments that make the endless difficult lessons worthwhile.

And, for the record, I love Eulia.  Steve (Dougherty) and I both agree that when we grow up, we want to be like her.
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People can be divided into three classes: the few who make things happen, the many who watch things happen and the overwhelming majority who have no idea what has happened - Warren Miller's "Off The Grid"
Some guy
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« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2009, 07:20:50 PM »

I love those "aha!" moments.  I think the biggest lightbulb moment I had was when I was told not to worry about my partner at all.  If I dance myself, my partner will be able to react much faster than if I were to "make her react".  Our Tango is still nowhere near as fast as it needs to be, but it's 500% sharper and faster as soon as I realized that, not to mention, lighter.  I never thought I'd say this, but Tango is now our "relaxation" dance and it's a welcome break during competitions.    Cool

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TangoDancer
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« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2009, 01:52:06 AM »

I think the biggest lightbulb moment I had was when I was told not to worry about my partner at all.  If I dance myself, my partner will be able to react much faster than if I were to "make her react". 
Ah yes...one of my fav sayings, "I want to dance with you...not for you".
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
elisedance
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« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2009, 04:11:42 AM »

ditto some guy (and tt).  My new coach told me to just go and not to worry about him - and to get ballanced on my own feet.  The effect on the dancing is extreme - but the effect on me is more so, now I feel 'unchained' and liberated.  Its nice to know that I can't out run him either - aparently I've met my match!!
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emeralddancer
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« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2009, 10:20:33 AM »

I think the biggest lightbulb moment I had was when I was told not to worry about my partner at all.  If I dance myself, my partner will be able to react much faster than if I were to "make her react". 
Ah yes...one of my fav sayings, "I want to dance with you...not for you".

I got that exact wording all week last week from my pro. AND I do not want to make you look good. You can look good for yourself.
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It is more important who they are as people and only then is it important who they are as dancers.~Marcia Haydee
cornutt
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« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2009, 09:13:32 PM »

ditto some guy (and tt).  My new coach told me to just go and not to worry about him - and to get ballanced on my own feet. 

This is a good topic -- I'll start a new thread on it.
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emeralddancer
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« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2009, 10:58:22 AM »

cool!
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It is more important who they are as people and only then is it important who they are as dancers.~Marcia Haydee
Bordertangoman
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« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2009, 11:15:05 AM »

i have noticed that some ladies keep their fingers spread when their hand is on the man's back. This is not right:
because the love seeps away!

You have to imagine that the embrace is:
 hand- his
heart -hers
heart -his
hand -hers
 thus one acheives a heart-heart and two minor chakra connection.
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”We need a witness to our lives.  There's a billion people on the planet, what does any one life really mean? But in a marriage, you're promising to care about everything.  The good things, the bad things, the terrible things, the mundane things, all of it, all of the time, every day. "
cornutt
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« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2009, 11:30:31 AM »

i have noticed that some ladies keep their fingers spread when their hand is on the man's back. This is not right:
because the love seeps away!


I believe you're talking about the close embrace in AT?
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QPO
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« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2009, 02:59:19 AM »

AT tango and INlt  Tango have completely different embraces. I will go back to AT when I am older. I did enjoy it. I just have to get lower in the Int'l style. Roll Eyes
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elisedance
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« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2009, 03:57:20 AM »

yes, but there is still something in what BTM says for the standard style - the frame is what keeps the couple together not only physically but also metaphorically - without the contact of hand to heart there is no real dynamic.  I mean you don't get that close to a stranger eh? Smiley
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
cornutt
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« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2009, 11:12:29 AM »

I'm still not very comfortable with my tango frame.  It puts a lot of stress on my right shoulder for some reason, and it seems that I have to use a fair amount of force with my left hand to keep my partner on my right side.  It just doesn't feel like we have a very positive connection.
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Bordertangoman
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« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2009, 11:29:29 AM »

I'm still not very comfortable with my tango frame.  It puts a lot of stress on my right shoulder for some reason, and it seems that I have to use a fair amount of force with my left hand to keep my partner on my right side.  It just doesn't feel like we have a very positive connection.

try dancing with no particular hand arm position just body to dody and a lose hug - womans arms draped lightly around mans neck;

then position your arms comfortably in the frame you you prefer.
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”We need a witness to our lives.  There's a billion people on the planet, what does any one life really mean? But in a marriage, you're promising to care about everything.  The good things, the bad things, the terrible things, the mundane things, all of it, all of the time, every day. "
TangoDancer
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« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2009, 06:13:26 AM »

I'm still not very comfortable with my tango frame.  It puts a lot of stress on my right shoulder for some reason, and it seems that I have to use a fair amount of force with my left hand to keep my partner on my right side.  It just doesn't feel like we have a very positive connection.

Know, too, that the tango position is simply the waltz/fox position rotated to the man's left body line. I always have my students come into a waltz/fox position, then I rotate "myself" into position... not the follow. Thus, ...no excess weight to the embrace.
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
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