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Author Topic: Dance Forums  (Read 17837 times)
phoenix13
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« Reply #255 on: May 06, 2013, 07:16:07 PM »

One of my fave cyber marketing gurus has a really good take on the subject,IMO.  He says that, when you are maintaining a forum, your posters are creating your content for you.  So,since content drives your site's traffic, you're really dependent upon posters for the health and growth of your business.  Punishing grown-ups while expecting them to grow your business for you = crazy talk, IMV.
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elisedance
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« Reply #256 on: May 06, 2013, 09:42:12 PM »

what he says makes sense - but I tihnk they have more traffic than we do so I guess their restrictions are targetted against just a few individuals.  What would happen is that someone would just disappera and then when you went to their profile there would be a red line through the name with BANNED written on the page.  It was quite traumatic.  they've since modified this to 'inactive' but will not let you delete your profile.  The reason being that that would also delete all your posts which they feel they own (one can make a case there since if you take out one person from a topic the other posts become nonsensical).  OTOH I put a lot of energy and creativity into DF and now I have nothing to show for it except, it appears, scorn.
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phoenix13
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« Reply #257 on: May 06, 2013, 09:58:51 PM »

I'm so sorry that happened. Sad
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elisedance
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« Reply #258 on: May 07, 2013, 05:00:17 AM »

I'm so sorry that happened. Sad
Undecided
me too... perhaps one day I'll find out why
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phoenix13
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« Reply #259 on: May 07, 2013, 05:20:47 AM »

what he says makes sense - but I tihnk they have more traffic than we do so I guess their restrictions are targetted against just a few individuals.  What would happen is that someone would just disappera and then when you went to their profile there would be a red line through the name with BANNED written on the page.  It was quite traumatic.  they've since modified this to 'inactive' but will not let you delete your profile.  The reason being that that would also delete all your posts which they feel they own (one can make a case there since if you take out one person from a topic the other posts become nonsensical).  OTOH I put a lot of energy and creativity into DF and now I have nothing to show for it except, it appears, scorn.

Harumph.  So many things I could say but won't in a public forum.  What I will say is that the "banned" label likely disappeared for one of two reasons -- One:  If you were popular over there, the management wouldn't want their membership to know you were mistreated.   And two: Labeling people in public could get them in legal trouble-- libel or slander?  I always get them mixed up.  But, regardless of what they think of you,they can't pubicly revile you for fear of retribution.

Just my thoughts. Could be wrong.*shrug*
« Last Edit: May 07, 2013, 10:26:08 AM by phoenix13 » Logged

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elisedance
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« Reply #260 on: May 08, 2013, 09:09:31 PM »

I wasn't the only one - they almost seemed to have to ahve someone to pick on all the time; bit of a paranoid environment.  So a number of us were banned.  I think they realized it was bad for business. 

I think it churlish of them to have kept it up this long though.  They say time heals all but apparently DF is an exception Grin
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

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phoenix13
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« Reply #261 on: May 09, 2013, 04:37:43 AM »

Well you know what they say.  Living well is the best revenge.  Wink
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elisedance
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« Reply #262 on: May 09, 2013, 06:52:20 AM »

Well you know what they say.  Living well is the best revenge.  Wink
And that, in a nutshell, is why PDO was created... It works Cheesy
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
phoenix13
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« Reply #263 on: May 09, 2013, 09:32:12 AM »

I'm sure it's nice for people to know that there is an alternative.    From what I have found, there really aren't a whole lot of large, active, free-to-join, English-language dance discussion forums. I'm glad that PDO is here so that people can discuss dance in a comfortable atmosphere.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 09:43:42 AM by phoenix13 » Logged

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elisedance
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« Reply #264 on: May 09, 2013, 03:06:25 PM »

I'm sure it's nice for people to know that there is an alternative.    From what I have found, there really aren't a whole lot of large, active, free-to-join, English-language dance discussion forums. I'm glad that PDO is here so that people can discuss dance in a comfortable atmosphere.

Smiley Smiley Smiley

me too ...
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

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QPO
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« Reply #265 on: May 10, 2013, 01:48:33 AM »

that has always been the plan, but you know that does go astray sometimes.
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phoenix13
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« Reply #266 on: May 10, 2013, 02:29:46 AM »

Of course.  Every forum has its tense moments. I think that a commitment to openness goes a long way toward minimizing those moments, because the conflict is about whatever it's about, rather than being about the forum itself.  Hmm. That doesn;t make sense.  Oh well. I tried.
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elisedance
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« Reply #267 on: May 10, 2013, 06:21:24 AM »

Of course.  Every forum has its tense moments. I think that a commitment to openness goes a long way toward minimizing those moments, because the conflict is about whatever it's about, rather than being about the forum itself.  Hmm. That doesn;t make sense.  Oh well. I tried.
clear to me... and exactly it
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

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phoenix13
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« Reply #268 on: June 15, 2013, 02:52:23 PM »

Okay. I finally read this whole thread because a LOT of our guests read it and quite often.  Not sure why.

Please bear with me,because I know that I am biased but I am determined to be honest and fair as much as I can.

I will weigh in because I used to be a part of the mod staff at Dance Forums.  For three years.  DF is run by a group of very nice volunteers who try their best to use good judgment when difficult situations arise in their forum.  The bottom line intention is to create a safe environment in which people can discuss dance.  Don't forget that DF was founded in a time when the most popular dance discussion boards were notoriously full of gossip and flame wars.  It was horrible, IMO. So the time was right for a pleasant,cordial board to be born.  I believe that that was the goal in founding DF.

To that end, some ground rules were established.  IMV, some of the rules made a lot of sense; others didn't.   The rules requiring people to be cordial made sense. (With the caveat that different people define cordial differently.)  The rules requiring a cone of silence over any dissent didn't make sense to me then and don't make sense to me now.  The cone of silence rules were already in existence when I joined the forum and since I was very close to the first member, I assume that those rules were instituted unilaterally or very close.

Either way,things work well until there is a interpersonal conflict.  That's when the rubber hits the road.

Many, many things go into building a forum.  Paying for the software and hosting is one big thing.  Doing the technical support is another huge thing. Creating content, atmosphere and community is another thing. Moderating and keeping the peace is another important thing.  There are other things that I probably forgot.  My take is that without any of these,there is no forum.  It takes all of these things.  Every one is valuable.

The other thing to keep in mind is that DF,like PDO,is run by volunteers.  I say that because, at least back when I worked there, DF had an invisible moderators' hangout where issues were discussed.  That was really valuable because, theoretically,no one person made difficult or controversial decisions about moderation issues.  When in doubt you went to the mod hangout, people weighed in, and there was a measured response.  The problem is that there can only be a response by consensus when there are enough people (volunteers) available to weigh in.  A lot of the time, people were called away by real life concerns -- work, school, kids, comps,whatever -- and decisions had to be made with less than a quorum.  Those may or may not have been the best decisions but, when there's a hacker trying to bring down your site, you can't wait until the weekend is over and everybody comes back to make a move.  You have to move now, even if it makes people angry.

All that being said, I have seen a shift in DF philosophy over the years.  My own take is that the staff there has seen everything at least once and is a lot less patient than it was at the beginning.  (See interactions with BlackSheep or UncleJoe, if you think that DF was always about giving "bad actors" the scarlet letter.  It wasn't.)  But people get tired. People get overworked.   People get jaded. It happens.

The other issue, IMO,is one of ownership.  Countless people have put their hearts and souls into the success of that site, but only one person "owns"the site on paper, and if that person reserves the rght make unilateral decisions, even over the mod staff that has stuck around through it all, then you have a de facto dictatorship, in the critical moments.

That used to work ten years ago when there were only a few games in town, but, now that there are countless other choices,people move on.


 And then there's the thin DF line,that involves mod staff backing up DF decisions, whether they agree or not.  Which I reluctantly admit that I agree with, even though I hated having to do it.  It's kind of like parents keeping a united front in front of their kids.  Arguing in front of the kids does not work, even if they want to bait you into public argument.  Agree in public and work it out in private.  That works in families and works in forums,IMV, as long as there are diverse voices with good intentions trying to work things out behind the scenes.

ETA:  I think that last bit is the most important. You have to have diverse voices behind the scenes,not just people of like mind reinforcing  each other.  You also have to, IMV, allow the "child" to say, in public, if necessary, "The emperor isn't wearing any clothes."   There has to be an avenue for a voice of dissent for the united front approach to work,IMV.    Some other former DF moderators thought so,too,but had to leave because even THEIR dissent was not welcome either.

That,IMHO,is why DF has lost so many valuable members and so many of their mod staff, over the years. People were asked to take ownership and responsibiity, but were never allowed to participate in the decisions that mattered.

« Last Edit: June 15, 2013, 04:39:06 PM by phoenix13 » Logged

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phoenix13
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« Reply #269 on: June 15, 2013, 03:33:32 PM »

I suppose  I should add, just to be clear, ee, that I quit DF long before you joined.  I didn't participate in banning you.    By the time I re-engaged with DF after a hiatus, you were a distant memory.

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