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| | | |-+  Routine or freedance, whats your choice and what do you aim for?
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Author Topic: Routine or freedance, whats your choice and what do you aim for?  (Read 5370 times)
elisedance
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ee


« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2009, 05:01:34 AM »

right on ttd - thats true for us all.  The challenge seems to be to get to the point where you feel sufficiently comfortable that you can let go and not think about dancing, just dance.   
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Dora-Satya Veda
Gold Star
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« Reply #31 on: July 15, 2009, 06:22:28 AM »

I probably follow better when I relax and do not try too hard.

I wouldn't say probably, I would say for sure you respond more accurate when you are relaxed and not trying too hard. Well, done. Grin I think you learned a very important lesson here.  Smiley
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Edward Teller
TangoDancer
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« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2009, 05:19:36 AM »

But what if you do not have time for the latter?  Can a routine help?  Or is it better to just cut back on content?

Not a routine...mile posts. Beginners give themselves routines as roadmaps to abate the need to think of what/how things will float. The more advanced dancer does not need these maps, however, mile posts... things do in a pinch or in an instant if needed, are quite resourceful w/o the confines of a set routine or syllabi amalgamation. DSV is correct in that dancing w/o a routine frees the couple to communicate w/ each other and express their feelings as they feel it, rather than how they are supposed to feel on a given step or at a given point in the routine.
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elisedance
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« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2009, 05:50:53 AM »

Its funny actually, all the men I have danced with have insisted on a routine for all the dances (even VW in one case) but only one kept to them - neither of the current ones do.  For the woman if regularly take as many as one step out of the routine each dance the routine becomes moot as you have to be prepared to dance ITM anyway. 

I find I go through a series of stages.  With a new routine at first I follow entirely as I am rather bad at learning step sequences.  Then I get used to the routine itself and then I dance it without any real knowledge of whether it was the routine or not - thats when I feel ready to compete and my partner could really do the routine or anything else.  I would much prefer to have short sequences of steps and variations that I am familiar with and go on autopilot (very much as you describe) but I think routines are really more a man thing.
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standarddancer
Open Bronze
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« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2009, 01:25:35 AM »

DP used to making up a lot of random stuff in comps, a lot of deviation from routine, coach always yelling at him, told him stop doing random stuff since there is a purpose of routine, routine is a combination of steps specifically designed for a couple depends on their strength and whatever they are capable of doing, random stuff are not organized, might presenting the couples' strength, might not flow well. Coach said some couples usually inexperienced couples usuallyl not able to deviate from routine, can't handle tough floor problem, but he is the opposite, good floor craft, but overdid improvisation, coach advised in case of bad floor problem, deviate from routine for a small piece, then try to get back to routine asap to continue the flow.

Our wonderful coach knows DP's capability of handling tough floor problem and his creativity of improvising random stuff at comps, our coach remembers our routine better than DP sometimes, at Manhattan dancesport after first rounds, due to bad floor issue, we did a lot of random stuff couldn't get back to routine as soon as coach wanted, coach came to DP reminded him he must stick to routine for later rounds for better performance, since it will be less couples and better couples on the floor, so it's important to perform the steps that we practice everyday and look good. I think what coach said make sense, when there are fewer couples and much stronger couples on the floor round after round, and floor problem becomes less an issue, its important to perform something that we are completely familiar with  for quality and precision.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2009, 01:33:56 AM by standarddancer » Logged

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elisedance
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« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2009, 04:02:53 AM »

You have a great coach - and obviously also one that really cares!

And how is it from your perspective SD?  You must be a great follower to match everything your creative DP throws at you - and on a competition floor Smiley 

I agree wiht your coach.  I can follow some random (non-routine) stuff but I tend to clam up a bit and not go all out  - and hence, I do not think I dance as well to the onlooker.  OTOH with a random lead I probably look more attentive and connected...
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
dancingirldancing
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 102


« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2009, 10:11:44 PM »

We have full routine but we also know if need be in a competition we can break from that routine but the aim is to get back to the routine as soon as we can.

Competition if like performing anyway.

We NEED routine !
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dancingirldancing
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 102


« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2009, 10:18:16 PM »

DP used to making up a lot of random stuff in comps, a lot of deviation from routine, coach always yelling at him, told him stop doing random stuff since there is a purpose of routine, routine is a combination of steps specifically designed for a couple depends on their strength and whatever they are capable of doing, random stuff are not organized, might presenting the couples' strength, might not flow well. Coach said some couples usually inexperienced couples usuallyl not able to deviate from routine, can't handle tough floor problem, but he is the opposite, good floor craft, but overdid improvisation, coach advised in case of bad floor problem, deviate from routine for a small piece, then try to get back to routine asap to continue the flow.

Our wonderful coach knows DP's capability of handling tough floor problem and his creativity of improvising random stuff at comps, our coach remembers our routine better than DP sometimes, at Manhattan dancesport after first rounds, due to bad floor issue, we did a lot of random stuff couldn't get back to routine as soon as coach wanted, coach came to DP reminded him he must stick to routine for later rounds for better performance, since it will be less couples and better couples on the floor, so it's important to perform the steps that we practice everyday and look good. I think what coach said make sense, when there are fewer couples and much stronger couples on the floor round after round, and floor problem becomes less an issue, its important to perform something that we are completely familiar with  for quality and precision.

Sounds exactly like my DP.... sigh...
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elisedance
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« Reply #38 on: July 31, 2009, 04:57:07 AM »

We have full routine but we also know if need be in a competition we can break from that routine but the aim is to get back to the routine as soon as we can.

Competition if like performing anyway.

We NEED routine !
I'm not very comfortable in the routines yet so I have a problem recognizing when I'm back in! 
[Don't suppose you are going to Empire are you DGD?]
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MusicChica
Intermediate Silver
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« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2009, 08:55:06 PM »

As a Bronze-level dancer, we don't really have routines as there just aren't enough steps we're allowed to do!  Except maybe when we get to do Open Bronze (January comp--the one we just had only offers closed), but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

That said, I think pro has little sequences he likes to use, but since he hasn't taught them to me as such I don't really know what they are.
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elisedance
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« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2009, 08:57:48 PM »

you kinda learn them without knowing it - thats what makes another pro feel so weird, they all have sequences they use - often subconsciously, its sort of their fingerprint Wink
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Sarosh
pre-bronze

Posts: 15


« Reply #41 on: August 06, 2009, 07:59:35 PM »

I think routines can be helpful and a hindrance.  Clearly, it allows the man and lady to train fundamental actions to become unconscious.  Most dancers require this for a long time.  I remember a quote from 14 time World Champion, Donnie Burns, saying to someone, "You know, Ron, I am now feeling comfortable changing my routine while I compete"...This was after being a world champion for 9 years.

Competitively, just do the same thing, no surprises. 
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elisedance
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« Reply #42 on: August 07, 2009, 05:38:06 AM »

I'm in the hinterland of not really knowing my routines yet - but with my pro thinking I do!
OTOH it means I'm still following and not working mechanically.  There is a big danger in getting established routines for the lady because she may get worse at following in emergencies...
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

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cornutt
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« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2009, 11:00:50 AM »

I'm in the hinterland of not really knowing my routines yet - but with my pro thinking I do!
OTOH it means I'm still following and not working mechanically.  There is a big danger in getting established routines for the lady because she may get worse at following in emergencies...

I've run into that problem with show routines.  At a certain point in the learning process, my partner stopped following, just going through her memorized steps instead.  Even in the context of a show routine, that doesn't work because timing gets messed up and the partners aren't in sync.  And it's a very unsatisfying way to dance.
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standarddancer
Open Bronze
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« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2009, 04:43:49 PM »

Both DP and coach believes good followers should be very alert and sensitive, good followers should perform as if she can read her leader’s mind…that’s a requirement for me for any type of sudden and unexpected change in comps.

Sometimes at evening rounds, I stopped and complained to coach that DP doesn’t perform routine even though there isn’t other couples on floor, coach told me “that’s not your problem, your job is follow as much as possible, I’ll tell him…” then he told DP he asked DP why he deviate from routine when no floor problem, DP said he was just bored, would like to have some fun and do something different, coach said,” I don’t’ care you bored, do whatever routine I design for you, stop making up random stuff, get organized…”
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