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| | | |-+  'In The Moment' vs 'In Parallel Motion'
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Author Topic: 'In The Moment' vs 'In Parallel Motion'  (Read 4713 times)
elisedance
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ee


« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2010, 05:27:50 AM »


So I guess the paradigm of these two separate approaches doesn't really fit into my concept of how it works. I would interpret true "Parallel Motion" to not involve lead and follow, to be action taken in parallel, without an energetically conversational aspect. And that has no place in my experience of ballroom.

But I think this is far more common than may be obvious.  Perhaps its best thought of as gymnastics rahter than dance - but gymanstics works and can create increadibly complex motions for two persons (think of the victorian era routines).  I thnk ballet falls very much into parallel motion dancing too - pas de deax include some of the most beautiful partner dancing ever created - but I don't think there is any lead-follow at all.  IMO many competition couples do exactly that - learn their parts and fit them together.  And the result is complex, dynamic - but may better be described as executed than danced (from the perspective of what we discuss here).
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drj
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« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2010, 08:08:21 AM »

<snip>

B. If, instead, you dance by body-school you can loose by a lack of drama - in particular, because the woman is always waiting and responding she has less time and freedom to do the dramatic moves.  On the other hand, you gain by being entirely coordinated and natural.

<snip>

My instructor is of the body school. A, his most advanced student, dances beautifully and is the mythical Perfect Follower; when I grow up I want to be her. They invited me to watch yesterday as they were doing rounds (all lead-and-follow, btw) in preparation for a comp this weekend.  Had you been there, you'd have seen that a dance formed by the body school is dramatic in plenty, breathtakingly so, magnificent. Drama comes not from the school, but from the dancers.
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ancora imparo
pruthe
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« Reply #32 on: March 18, 2010, 09:20:24 AM »

Regarding ITM for lady, seems like lady could be thinking both in the present and future at the same time. Especially when she recognizes what is happening in the present. She could be deciding ahead of time on how she might want to do some of her jobs depending upon present circumstances.
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"It's not what you do, but how you do it."

"The Truth in Ballroom Dance is found in the Basic steps."

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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #33 on: March 18, 2010, 10:21:35 AM »

Regarding ITM for lady, seems like lady could be thinking both in the present and future at the same time. Especially when she recognizes what is happening in the present. She could be deciding ahead of time on how she might want to do some of her jobs depending upon present circumstances.

I think 'might' is the active word here.  When things are working for me (see post in DSV's area for update) there is no past or future, its entirely present.  And not only that once done there is no recollection of the act itself, just a euphoria...
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
samina
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« Reply #34 on: March 18, 2010, 12:39:41 PM »

Regarding ITM for lady, seems like lady could be thinking both in the present and future at the same time. Especially when she recognizes what is happening in the present. She could be deciding ahead of time on how she might want to do some of her jobs depending upon present circumstances.
I think there's a kind of "spherical sensing" that accomplishes this, and that's what the Perfect Follower taps into or aligns with in order to blend the ITM with action and drama. She's in the moment, but rapid responses fire off probably choices for the next moment, and they shoot out into the future and lead her toward them.

My sense of it, anyway...
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pruthe
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« Reply #35 on: March 18, 2010, 01:47:40 PM »

When I said future, I meant the very near future, like if man is starting to lead a throw-away oversway and lady recognizes this early on, she could be quickly thinking about which of several options she could use to complete the oversway. I think Sam was probably alluding to this in her previous post. This approach could apply to any recognizable sequences that the lady encounters. I'm currently of opinion that man should always be thinking in present and future. Not easy to do but I'm trying to move in that direction.
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"It's not what you do, but how you do it."

"The Truth in Ballroom Dance is found in the Basic steps."

A.S.
elisedance
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« Reply #36 on: March 18, 2010, 02:07:40 PM »

I think you are right - but what I forgot to mention is that when responding is going at its very best - I'm not consciously thinking of anything except where I am.  Its very zen.  In a way you must be right because my body knows what to do when my partner moves - so in that sence it has a forward thought, its just that that thought does not actually enter the conscious...
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
samina
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« Reply #37 on: March 18, 2010, 02:21:56 PM »

*the great mystery and masterful intelligence of the subconscious...*  Cool Grin Cheesy
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Some guy
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« Reply #38 on: March 18, 2010, 03:14:17 PM »

Interesting post. Yet, I feel that it is incomplete.

Body School is not only waiting/responding, it is also following through to the natural extension of the movement, which will in turn create shape, which can in turn create dynamics unattainable by the parallel motion method.
I have to re-post what TD said.  I had to add the emphasis because I have a very subjective but true example of this that I've personally witnessed.

My partner was an avid pro-am dancer, but she danced pro-am with a non Body-School teacher.  The pro was a former U.S. pro champion.  I believe he was more Round school and they had VERY complex routines.  When they competed they always ranked in the top 6 in the U.S.  She had her own work to do, and believe me, I used to think it was dynamic and wonderful.  She then tried out to dance pro-am with a recent Blackpool quarter finalist, who also believed only in parallel motion.  I saw the same effect, except that the U.S. Pro actually made my partner look slightly better as he carried himself better. I've seen my partner dance with a Blackpool pro finalist (non Body School) and it wasn't too far away from what she did with her U.S. pro.  This I believe is mainly because she still had to produce a lot of the dynamics herself.  So long as she was in parrallel motion, she was only as good as herself, and with 15 years of ballet training, she was pretty good.  So there was little variation in her own dancing.  She could only do what she could do.  Then, a few weeks ago, I had the pleasure of seeing her dance with a Body School pro (from Canada!).  To say that the effect was mind-blowing doesn't do justice to what I saw.  The level of dynamics achieved was something she could NEVER produce with her previous pro partner, or anyone I had ever seen her with, and definitely more than she ever could on her own... at least not within the next 30-years.  She was like a whip in his hands, cracking at each corner.  Just like a whip, I highly doubt she could produce that much range of movement, dynamics, speed, sharpness, and fluidity all at once and all by herself.    

I've seen my partner in the hands of DSV's sister, and to say that my partner was a lasso, a whip, a gymnast's ribbon, and a rocket, all rolled into one, in DSV's sisters arms is an understatement.  The only reason I didn't include her in the above example was because DSV's sister is a much younger and higher level Body School dancer than the Canadian pro.  So I kind of expected it from DSV's sister.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2010, 03:27:23 PM by Some guy » Logged
Some guy
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« Reply #39 on: March 18, 2010, 03:31:46 PM »

I have to add that I believe the effect works both ways for the man and the lady.  She can be a whip in my arms, but with her my arms, I can far exceed my own limits of range, dynamics, and sharpness.  I can move along just fine by myself but when I partner up her, it's like I have grappling-hook assisted hairpin turns (Batmobile reference), arresting hook assisted stops and catapult assisted launches (aircraft carrier references). 

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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #40 on: March 18, 2010, 03:44:00 PM »

I'm giddy just reading this.  Partly because of the whiplash - but mostly out of anticipation!
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Some guy
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« Reply #41 on: March 18, 2010, 03:46:07 PM »

I hope I captured some of the giddiness!  You probably have some idea now how giddy we get dancing like this! 
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Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #42 on: July 01, 2010, 01:40:47 AM »

<snip>

B. If, instead, you dance by body-school you can loose by a lack of drama - in particular, because the woman is always waiting and responding she has less time and freedom to do the dramatic moves.  On the other hand, you gain by being entirely coordinated and natural.

<snip>

My instructor is of the body school. A, his most advanced student, dances beautifully and is the mythical Perfect Follower; when I grow up I want to be her. They invited me to watch yesterday as they were doing rounds (all lead-and-follow, btw) in preparation for a comp this weekend.  Had you been there, you'd have seen that a dance formed by the body school is dramatic in plenty, breathtakingly so, magnificent. Drama comes not from the school, but from the dancers.


Totally agree, drj.
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"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #43 on: July 01, 2010, 01:46:40 AM »

When I said future, I meant the very near future, like if man is starting to lead a throw-away oversway and lady recognizes this early on, she could be quickly thinking about which of several options she could use to complete the oversway.

Well, I have a question to you then. How would the lady know how long you want to spend in the throw-away oversway (when you want to finish) as she is not in charge of timing?
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"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #44 on: July 01, 2010, 02:04:47 AM »

Then, a few weeks ago, I had the pleasure of seeing her dance with a Body School pro (from Canada!).  To say that the effect was mind-blowing doesn't do justice to what I saw.  The level of dynamics achieved was something she could NEVER produce with her previous pro partner, or anyone I had ever seen her with, and definitely more than she ever could on her own... at least not within the next 30-years.  She was like a whip in his hands, cracking at each corner.  Just like a whip, I highly doubt she could produce that much range of movement, dynamics, speed, sharpness, and fluidity all at once and all by herself.     

I have seen many both beginners and top professionals in the hand of great Body School dancers and to this day it still amazes me what they can get a lady to do even if she isn’t that well trained. They are absolutely mind-blowing, dramatic, energetic and powerful. I am not surprised this Canadian dancer is able to produce some great dancing. Body School and Square School dancers seem to be able to keep the quality of their dancing for longer than any of the other school due to the fact they use energy rather than force.
 
Quote
I've seen my partner in the hands of DSV's sister, and to say that my partner was a lasso, a whip, a gymnast's ribbon, and a rocket, all rolled into one, in DSV's sisters arms is an understatement.  The only reason I didn't include her in the above example was because DSV's sister is a much younger and higher level Body School dancer than the Canadian pro.  So I kind of expected it from DSV's sister.


I have seen my sister dance with ladies of all levels and she makes them look great. I do know she trained once a week with her partner where he was the lady and she was the man. It still blows my mind to see what she can do. She is not muscular strong at all. Her muscles are actually so soft that one should think she can’t stand up. It just goes to prove that muscle strength has nothing to do with how strong you look on the floor.


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"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
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