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Author Topic: Good times bad times  (Read 4936 times)
Peaches
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 38


« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2009, 10:32:31 PM »

This is beating a dead [thread] but...  *breathes huge freakin' sigh of relief!*  OMG, I thought I was the only one having those thoughts regarding what had been happening on D-F earlier this year.  I'm not crazy!!!
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QPO
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Posts: 20824


Adelaide South Australia


« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2009, 01:33:26 AM »

yes. I think those that have never tried someones else's style can be flippant at times. but each one has its pros and cons and you need to be in a place where you feel comfortable.

For me it is ballroom and new vouge..others it will be Latin or Rock'n'roll or AT..just keep moving moving
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MusicChica
Intermediate Silver
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Posts: 1325


« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2009, 03:36:01 AM »

That said, during the class prior to the open dancing, the teacher said something that I found vaguely offensive as a ballroom dancer.  She was talking about AT close embrace and how AT is danced grounded into the floor.  Then, she approximated a (very bad) ballroom hold and said, "And this is in contrast to ballroom tango, which is danced very high and you ignore your partner."  Now, I would hope that you more educated AT dancers realize that ballroom tango is neither of those things--it's danced very low into the floor, the knees are actually bent the whole time, and while you don't look at your partner, you're hardly ignoring them.  In fact, the connection with your partner is paramount.  And besides, in a true AT close embrace, you don't look at your partner either!

So my question is, is this a common attitude amongst AT dancers, this misguided information about ballroom tango?
LOL. 

I'm sorry, I just have to laugh.  Yeah, I've found this to be pretty common amongst AT dancers.  It's the same exact inverse of ballroom dancers who think they know AT just because they can throw together a few figures. 

Well, that's certainly not this ballroom dancer's view of "knowing" AT!  I fully realize I don't know jack-crap about the dance and should probably leave it to those better suited to it, LOL...
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Peaches
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 38


« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2009, 09:55:55 AM »

I don't think it's being flippant, so much as seeing the illusion without understanding what's going on to make it happen.  It happens with AT dancers wrt ballroom (a parody of being up on toes, not connected to the partner, with a parody of a frame), and it happens with ballroom dancers wrt AT (looking at floor, shuffling around, bad posture, random boleos thrown in everywhere). 

*shrug*

So long as the person isn't performing or teaching...whatever.  Unfortunately, there are plenty of people who do think they can teach what they don't know...because they never humble themselves enough to realize they don't know something.
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elisedance
Administrator
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Posts: 35013


ee


« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2009, 01:30:14 PM »

wow, yes indeed. And thats true in absolutely everything. 

My favorite is the american woman who was trying to teach me what an English Cream Tea is (er, tea with cream in it (yeuch))...
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Bordertangoman
Gold Star
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Posts: 6088



« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2009, 12:20:55 PM »

wow, yes indeed. And thats true in absolutely everything. 

My favorite is the american woman who was trying to teach me what an English Cream Tea is (er, tea with cream in it (yeuch))...

you've never had a coffee in Ireland: delicious cream on top of the cheapest instant coffee!

yeurch indeed
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”We need a witness to our lives.  There's a billion people on the planet, what does any one life really mean? But in a marriage, you're promising to care about everything.  The good things, the bad things, the terrible things, the mundane things, all of it, all of the time, every day. "
elisedance
Administrator
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« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2009, 01:36:16 PM »

yeurch - until they put the irish whiskey in
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
TangoDancer
Open Bronze
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Posts: 736



« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2009, 04:50:33 PM »

....so much as seeing the illusion without understanding what's going on to make it happen.  It happens with AT dancers wrt ballroom

Unfortunately, there are plenty of people who do think they can teach what they don't know...because they never humble themselves enough to realize they don't know something.

So, incredibly true! It is amazing how many persons do not realize that;
1. dance is all an illusion, and if you are busy trying to do what you 'believe' is happening, then you are missing all of what really is. And,
2. partnership dance is exactly that, and if you stop to remember all of the things necessary w/i your own movement, plus the outside stimuli of partner/music/space, you will not have time or desire to try to find these things in your partner, let asidse havng the nerve to criticize or teach.
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
phoenix13
Gold
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Posts: 3359



« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2013, 11:04:00 AM »

What a wonderful conversation.  Sorry I missed it.   Grin  I think that btm's post, a page or so ago, contained lots of good points.  If we are emotionally validated by doing anything (not just dance) "correctly,"  then, when someone challenges that way of doing things, they are challenging our identity, not just our dance (or whatever.)

FTR, I see this misjudging/devaluing of others in proponents of lots of dance forms, not just AT.

I also think that TD makes some truly excellent points about the marketing of AT.  I wasn't around in the dance scene to have seen this marketing happen, but I do see its effects.  "True" tango, whatever that is, is nirvana, attainable only by the devout.  And a trip t BsAs is a pilgrimage everyone must make, in her/his tango lifetime. Would be interesting to be able to go back in time and talk with the tango masters, back in their prime.  Somehow I suspect that they took tango as less of a life and death proposition than many of their latter day disciples, who, in some cases, benefit from the mystique.

No idea of what was happening in the DF AT forum when this thread was started.  I wasn't there.  But  I have seen lots of AT-related catfights over the years.  I just try to stay out of the fray and bear in mind that those fights often stem from zeal for/passion for/love of the dance.  I try to ignore the rest. *shrug*   Just because someone needs to validate their view by belittling mine doesn't mean I have to agree with them OR even react to them.   If I react, I allow them to put me on the defensive and thereby allow them to frame the debate.
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Dona nobis pacem.
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