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Author Topic: The Advice topic  (Read 7068 times)
elisedance
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ee


« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2009, 04:20:42 AM »

Great conversation - and to clarify, giving up the AM is not an option, as R says, they are rarer thans hen's dance shoes Wink and to find one you can actually compete with at your level - and height is worth its weight in gold.  The real question is whether to continue the pro/am.  so I had resolved to drop the latter - and then I had the lesson yesterday. 

I'm back to doing both but I have changed the dynamic so that both am and pro know that the former is my priority.

One point: on pros and pro/am.  While it is true that many pros will take anyone who will pay it is certainly not true for all of them.  A pro who is actively competing and scoring well at an international level often will not take any ams and if they do they will only take a very few.  Such pros are not easy to find and can be selective with their ams.  I find myself in such a situation - a pro that is outstanding and that has agreed to dance and compete with me - this is something special that I can not discarded lightly. 

In thinking about it (and with the help of the discussion above) I realize that the reason I am doing the pro/am is less about competing and more about learning and dancing at as high a level as I am capable of.  That revelation takes a lot of pressure off.  I think I am going to continue with the pro for a while - and even do a few competitions.  What I am also going to do though is to encourage my DP to take more lessons with the same pro so that I can apply as much as possible what I learn to our partnership. 
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elisedance
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« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2009, 04:25:20 AM »

Good luck with your problem having an amateur and pro partner. I know them both and agree you are fortunate. I have read many times that your dancing is transformed when you take lessons with pro. Tell me though, do you go back to the amateur and expect a similar result or progression. Do you get even mildly frustrated because the feeling isnt the same? Whose fault is it if you try to do what you learn in your pro lesson with your amateur partner and fail ? Maybe what you are learning with your pro is how to ride some pretty broad coat tails. When you progress with another amateur you know, for sure, you are getting better.

I find that I can apply much of what I learn with the pro to my dancing with DP even if he has not learned the same.  I don't get frustrated - its more like being able to drive on either side of the road (as in England) - I now do that seamlessly, I hardly notice there is a difference.  To some extent the same goes with the partners - its is as if its two different activiites.   OTOH there is no question that what I have learned has greatly improved dancing with DP - you can tell because he feels he is dancing much better Smiley and he is of course as there is less of a potato sack to drag around Cheesy
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Blue Tango
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« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2009, 06:33:51 PM »

Oh Elise, bad girl.  I've seen you dance; no potato sack you!
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elisedance
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« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2009, 10:39:45 PM »

Roll Eyes
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dancingfool
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I am Canadian!


« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2009, 12:42:50 AM »

I happily present myself as a 2nd eyewitness to the inaccuracy of your statement.

I hope to dance as well as you some day ...  sigh...
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Blue Tango
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« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2009, 12:53:49 AM »

You tell her, DF!   Grin
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elisedance
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« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2009, 02:22:39 AM »

"Oh, sides, you are too tough ! Will you yet hold ?"  (Lear)
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

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dancingfool
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I am Canadian!


« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2009, 12:27:39 PM »

my pro says the best dancers are the humble ones - need we say more about you?
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elisedance
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« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2009, 01:12:17 PM »

oh, now you have ne coming and going!  I'f I say I'm good I'm aarrogant.  If I say I am bad then I am faking humbledom in order to sound good - and arrogant.  Hmmm.. maybe I'm just arrogant! Tongue

I know, I'm sort of OK.... and that is the truth if you compare me to the membership on this forum Shocked
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

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Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2009, 01:24:40 PM »

oh, now you have me coming and going!  I'f I say I'm good I'm aarrogant.  If I say I am bad then I am faking humbledom in order to sound good - and arrogant.  Hmmm.. maybe I'm just arrogant! Tongue

I often feel the same way.

In the culture I was brought up, you are not supposed to brag or tell anybody what you have done (it is called the “Jante Loven” or Jante’s Law). I came to the US and was told off for not telling, what I had done. I have actually heard professionals from the US, brag about their result and people thinking of them as kings and queens, even though their best result was my worst result.

Talking about a fine line to walk! If you say, you are good, you are bragging and arrogant. If you say you are OK, then you are showing false humility. If you say you are no good, then you are lying.

I am still puzzled about this issue and I am not sure how to deal with the issue. It sure is a dilemma that has as many opinions as there are people.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2009, 07:33:23 PM by Dora-Satya Veda » Logged

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elisedance
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« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2009, 02:45:49 PM »

tis an interesting cultural thing and I have found that it is encapsulated in one word 'ambitiuous'


In Europe if you described someone as 'ambituous' it was a put down - basically someone that is selfish and without worry about putting others down to get ahead.  In the US (in my experience I should add since the US is a biiiiiig place) the word is a complement - someone that is trying to get ahead of the pack.

Canada is very european (in many things) and the feeling its as you describe.  You can not draw attention to your own achievements, you are supposed to let others do it for you.  Which means in practise that a few people get a lot of accolades while others that are equally or more accomplished stay in the shaddows.

Its actually much simpler to live in the US where you can say you are good if you are good.  And what, pray, is wrong with that? 
« Last Edit: June 06, 2009, 07:53:20 PM by elisedance » Logged

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MusicChica
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« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2009, 06:01:18 PM »

If you say you are no good, then you are lying.

I'm no good.  And I'm no liar, either.
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elisedance
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« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2009, 07:53:49 PM »

Cheesy  then you are destined for greatness
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Some guy
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« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2009, 11:00:23 AM »

I'm not from the U.S (but I got here as fast as I could!) and I find myself in the same predicament.  I had to change the way I thought of people that brag about themselves.  The reason I believe we were not told to brag is for the very reason that DSV exemplified: your best result could be someone else's worst result and you could end up humiliating yourself. 

In the country I grew up in, we were in a cramped up island where everybody knew everyone else and their achievements.  So you would actually not want to brag because you already knew the achievements of the person you were bragging to... and more often than not, their achievements far outweighed yours. 

I think the fact that America is so vast prevents people from similar backgrounds and comparable achievements from really running into each other so much.  For example, in my country, the list of achievements one had versus the list of achievements the country had to offer was a very close ratio: my country offered good piano training, decent ballet and tap training, compulsory foreign language education,  free academic education, cooking lessons, martial arts, etc.  That's about it.  So the average person had the following skills: nearly everyone was taught how to play the piano, nearly everyone was taught to do some kind of dancing (ballet, tap), everyone went to school and had some sort of degree, everyone was a good cook (except me!), almost everyone could read and write and speak at least 2 languages, etc.  So if you did any of these, you really had no bragging rights.  Now if you knew 5 languages fluently, or if you played the clarinet or violin (just as long as it wasn't a piano) it was pretty safe to brag.  This country in contrast offers too many achievements for one human being to even know about.   So I guess the only way around that was to actually tell people what you achieved.  In contrast, the U.S. dance scene is relatively small and when folks bring their bragging habit to the dance world, it, more often than not, tends to have the opposite effect than what was intended.   
« Last Edit: June 08, 2009, 11:02:35 AM by Some guy » Logged
dream a little dream
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« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2009, 11:14:01 AM »

There is a fine line, too, between bragging and simply stating what your accomplishments are. 
I like the people who will tell me, matter of factly, that yes, they are good and that they've done X, when I ask them if they are any good.  If I wanted a laundry list of "accomplishments", I would not have asked, as everyone will give you that list!

However, here in the States, we like people with accolades, so anyone who says that they have accomplished something is heralded as something wonderful, regardless of whether they are worthy or not.
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