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Author Topic: The Advice topic  (Read 6976 times)
elisedance
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ee


« on: June 04, 2009, 05:40:53 AM »

We have a wonderful off-topic topic over in the fun stuffs area - but I sometimes read posts there that really beg an answer, ones where people express a frustration or need - but the topic does not allow replies.  So post your problems or issues and contribute your advice.... 

I'll start off with a big one for me: 
I am currently doing both pro-am and am.  The reason why is my DP had a physical fitness issue that limited our dancing capability.  So I started doing pro-am again and it went very well.  Recently I moved to a new pro and the partnership is very promising.  However, even more recently after some medical stuff my DP has recovered and he has shown a new committment to our dancing (by actions not words BTW).  Yes, life is funny: I now have two fabulous partners - but somewhat limited resources and time. 

So the question is: should I scale down or stop the pro-am and focus solely on the AM partnership?
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ZPomeroy
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« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2009, 09:31:41 AM »

I suppose there are two main questions here: firstly who do you prefer dancing with, and secondly who do you think you would have a longer dancing relationship with

Zac
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« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2009, 10:21:31 AM »

Only you know what your true dancing goals are and only you know who you really prefer to dance with.  I'd answer those questions first and then look at the amount of time you can devote to each.
Good luck, Elise!
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elisedance
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« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2009, 02:07:14 PM »

I suppose there are two main questions here: firstly who do you prefer dancing with, and secondly who do you think you would have a longer dancing relationship with

Zac

Love them both - but for different reasons.  With DP I am totally secure, I can follow everything that he leads and he is a lovely dancer.  With pro I am stretched to my limit, I learn radically new things (can you tell I had a lesson this morning Wink) and I am advancing way faster as a dancer than I would otherwise.  I can't see an end to either relationship (other than the unpredictable - moving, injuries etc etc).  DP and I are totally committed to dancing together - we are even planning for next year - and pro just told me today he thinks I am a wonderful student  Cool (blush).  Dance heaven.
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Some guy
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« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2009, 03:13:43 PM »

Elise, you already know that there is no doubt that you will improve faster dancing with a pro than with an amateur.  So the question then comes down to:
1) money
2) how much you want to evolve with your amateur partner (sometimes, the journey itself is very rewarding)

If money is not an object and improving your dancing is the primary goal, it makes little sense to dance with an amateur partner.  If you want to do well at amateur competitions and money is limited, then it makes more sense to maximize time with your amateur partner (your pro can still teach both of you).  Remember, the more time you spend with your pro partner, it's less time your amateur partner gets to practice with you and improve himself.  So while you may be improving quickly, your amateur partner's improvement has been limited by you (unless he dances pro am with a female pro).
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elisedance
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« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2009, 03:52:16 PM »

well, you sort of put it in a nutshell Smiley 

there is one factor missing though.  I find competing with an AM partner more satisfying somehow.  when you get down to it, the pro/am partnership exists because of money not because of dancing.  I think with the current pro I have got further from that statement than ever before but its still real - no money, then no dancing.  With AM the goals are somehow purer and you get this sense of cameraderie that the paid partnership can not generate - least I have not seen it. 

OTOH if you dance with a pro and get good enough you may attract a much higher level AM.  I think that point is there but I think I have also realized that my current AM partner is probably as good a match as I am ever going to find.

So I was definitely thinking of dropping the pro/am - and then I go for a lesson this morning and WOW!  Again I learn something that just transforms the way I move.  How can I stop this?   This is, of course, terrific for the am relationship too.

Ow my head hurts....
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
MusicChica
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« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2009, 04:17:08 PM »

(your pro can still teach both of you)

I think that's an important point to remember.  Do you think your pro wouldn't be able to impart those awesome pearls of wisdom if he was teaching you as a couple instead of just you as a single?
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Some guy
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« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2009, 07:20:47 PM »

I agree Elise, it's a lot more fulfilling to discover the intricacies of dancing and grow as a couple in an amateur relationship.  Personally I wouldn't do pro-am even if I had endless money as I find the personal growth and bond that an amateur partnership offers very addictive!... warts and all!  Cheesy
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Rugby
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« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2009, 08:59:53 PM »

I agree Elise, it's a lot more fulfilling to discover the intricacies of dancing and grow as a couple in an amateur relationship.  Personally I wouldn't do pro-am even if I had endless money as I find the personal growth and bond that an amateur partnership offers very addictive!... warts and all!  Cheesy

I totally agree.  Another point us that it's far easier to find a Pro and go back into Pro/Am than find another amateur partner, and, the higher up you are the harder to find a partner too.      
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catsmeow
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« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2009, 10:00:13 PM »

Good luck with your problem having an amateur and pro partner. I know them both and agree you are fortunate. I have read many times that your dancing is transformed when you take lessons with pro. Tell me though, do you go back to the amateur and expect a similar result or progression. Do you get even mildly frustrated because the feeling isnt the same? Whose fault is it if you try to do what you learn in your pro lesson with your amateur partner and fail ? Maybe what you are learning with your pro is how to ride some pretty broad coat tails. When you progress with another amateur you know, for sure, you are getting better.
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Blue Tango
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« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2009, 10:19:59 PM »

I totally agree.  Another point us that it's far easier to find a Pro and go back into Pro/Am than find another amateur partner, and, the higher up you are the harder to find a partner too.      

It is somewhat easier to find a pro if just any pro is what you're looking for.  But when you find the right pro...  In my case my pro is more properly my mentor, she's been with me a long time, she finds me high level coaches when I need some tweaking and she truly cares.  It's not just a business relationship.
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Rugby
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« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2009, 10:28:24 PM »

When I dance with the Pro I feel fantastic.  When I go back to the DP it is not the same and of course the same goes when he dances with the female Pro and then me.  Its when he feels the same as the Pro to me and I feel the same as the Pro to him that we know that we are truly progressing.  Then we know that we have learned and are able to do what we are being taught.  It is when I went from doing Pro/Am to Am/Am that I learned to be a better dancer.  Of course I like working with the Pro but it is unrealistic in telling me where I really am.

When I ask the Pros about this they say when the student is dancing with them the teacher is doing their job, which makes it easier for the student, and they also help carry the student and be a bit of a crutch for them.  With the Am DP I know I have to hold up my end and he his and this makes us stronger as dancers.  We have gotten to the point where we can help each other and are strong enough to maintain our balance and complete our move even when the other is off balance or slightly off.  This is very important to me that we can do that as I know we are progressing in the right direction and have learned to deal with problems and carry on smoothly.  With a Pro I would not learn to be able to do this as they would not have these problems for me to learn to be able to deal with and carry on anyways.  
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Everyone tries to rush up through the syllabus levles and think once they are at the top they have arrived.  What they don't realize is that by doing this it is like skimming through a book, you may get the gist but you will never understand the story.
Rugby
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« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2009, 10:49:53 PM »

Elise and I both know how hard it is to find a partner.  By the time you get to Pre-Champ both men and women are extremely scarace.  In dancing its the pyramid effect.  There are maybe four single men (and women) to chose from between Pre-Champ and Champ.  All the rest are married and the even those four men and women have partners.  If you lose your partner you have to hope someone comes out of the woodwork or that one of the others break up.  Since there is nobody they are not going to break up unless they have to.  Even if one of them breaks up you have to find a guy that is tall enough and wants to dance with you.  Both Elise and I are tall  (I'm 5' 11" in my heels) and not many men can dance with a couple of women that are almost 6' tall, so it makes it hard for her and I to find someone else.  If you lose your partner you may get stuck with someone who may be difficult to dance with or have a not so good personality.  You have to put up with it or sit and watch.

For a Pro if I had the money I could choose whomever I felt like it.  They don't care about my height or talent or possibly personality, just that I could pay.  If they have an opening I'm in as long as the money flows and they can get along with me.  Most of the top level pros teach at the studio that Elise and I go to.  She would have absolutely no problem finding a Pro and the one she is with now would be more than happy to have her back since he likes her and her dancing.  If she left her Am do you think he is just going to sit around and wait for her to come back?  No way, he can't afford the time off and with the shortage of partners at his level chances are one of the other ladies may snap him up.  If he says no he may be stuck so if someone else comes along he isn't going to think twice.  Sure he may wait a bit to see if Elise changes her mind but he does not have the luxury of holding out for long.   
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Everyone tries to rush up through the syllabus levles and think once they are at the top they have arrived.  What they don't realize is that by doing this it is like skimming through a book, you may get the gist but you will never understand the story.
Blue Tango
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« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2009, 11:06:09 PM »

Well, the pro situation is much different in non-Toronto.  If you stop dancing with your pro your time slot will fill up in no time.  Sure, a pro will try to find you a place when you get back to it but they have a loyalty to their present students to think of.  There just aren't a lot of high level pros here to choose from.  Sure, we get coaches from T.O. or Montreal but only sporadically and not only do you have to pay premium rates you also need to pay floor fees.  If I moved to Toronto I'd have the options you speak of and I'd likely take advantage of them.
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Rugby
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« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2009, 12:33:11 AM »

I told you that you had to move.   Grin
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Everyone tries to rush up through the syllabus levles and think once they are at the top they have arrived.  What they don't realize is that by doing this it is like skimming through a book, you may get the gist but you will never understand the story.
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