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Author Topic: Cost of going to a pro-am comp  (Read 2829 times)
elisedance
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ee


« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2010, 02:43:36 PM »

meh,  not so complicated - just expensive Shocked
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QPO
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« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2010, 08:10:23 AM »

well I know that it would not be an option for me...do you know of any comp couples that do pro-am as well, or is it just people that dont have a regular partner that do these events
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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2010, 08:34:09 AM »

Well, there is me for example.

Funny, if you are an AM dancer and took private lessons with a pro that would be regarded as a very wise way to improve your dancing and your partnership.  Why is it that when you do the same thing with the goal of dancing pro-am there is always (and I am not referring to your question, unless you really did meant it that way) this innuendo that its 'women paying for attention' or playing at dancing.

I strongly recommend it.  Pro-am in essence (and if carried out at as a serious dancesport) means working with a top male dancer (if you choose wisely) with the added incentive (and pressure) that you are going to also compete.  It is an end in itself (if you doubt that please DO come compete at OSB with the pro of your choice) but its also fantastic for my AM partnership.

The reason for the latter is that lessons with DP almost invariably focus 80% on him and I am supposed to pick up my part by watching and osmosis.  Private lessons with pro are entirely dedicated to my dancing so I am prepared (in many ways ahead) of DP for our joint lessons.

This raises a sticky cost issue (to go BOT) since in essence it means I pay for a private lesson AND I pay for half of our joint lesson which is mainly for DP.  I see this as unfair but have not thought of a viable solution - and i guess I don't have the guts to broach it whith DP.  A bit disappointingly he has never raised the (obvious) issue himself Undecided
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QPO
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« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2010, 08:56:40 AM »

Interesting that you say that about the focus on the male...I have heard that before, our lessons  are pretty even, although I believe there is more focus on V but he has to learn to lead something and like tonight we were learning a new piece to our foxtrot and the coach could lead me through it without too much effort. So I suppose that is why there needs to be so much more attention on the male.

but if you are not a married couple it must be difficult if you are paying for 1/2  the lesson and you don't get much attention.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2010, 05:56:08 PM by QPO » Logged

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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2010, 09:01:40 AM »

Its made worse because pro knows exactly what I can do so I don't think he even looks at me very much.  OTOH when he demonstrates something with me he usually does at least say 'very nice'.....
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QPO
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« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2010, 05:58:04 PM »

well, would be interesting know know and perhaps on another thread, if that is common practice and the benefits or purpose to that? by that I mean

do others have the same experience in a lesson, who does the coach focus on? Do you feel jilted?
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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2010, 06:03:28 PM »

I thought we had a topic on that - but I can't find it either Undecided
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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2010, 12:07:53 PM »

This has come up recently - so please NO NAMES OF COMPETITIONS PLEASE!!
!![Mods please edit imediately if you see any specific references]

If you enter an AM or PRO event you go to the competiton web site and download the forms.  Look up the entry fees and pay them.  And thats about it.

If, however, you want to enter a pro/am competition you can do it either through your pro or directly with the competition yourself.  Or can you???
Some competitions make this your choice - I have been putting in my own pro/am entries for a while now.  That takes pressure off my pro and it suits me fine.  But this is not always easy because some competitions will not post the prices of the pro-am entries on the web site. 

The only reason I can think of this is to let the studios add an extra fee to the entries if they so choose.  IMO that is plain scalping since the studio/pro does nothing for that extra money - its a studio tax - and worse than that its a secret one.  A good pro (and lots of the ones I know are just that) will give you a full breakdown on your costs - travel, food, entries and dance fees (pro fee for doing each dance or however you organize it). 

But maybe I missed something.  Does anyone know of another reason why the AM should not know how much the entry fees are to the competition?


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MusicChica
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« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2010, 07:31:33 PM »

For independent (that is to say, NDCA) comps, it's mainly done as a favor for the entrants from chain studios--as well all know, chain studios don't really want their students to know how much of what they're paying goes toward what pieces of the puzzle.  Obviously, FADS and Arthur Murray don't have a monopoly on this idea of keeping the price breakdown secret, but they're the biggest players in the game, so the competitions that have a fair amount of entries from that type of studio will cater to them.

That said, a lot of the time you can email the organizer and ask for the entry fees and they'll gladly provide them.  The idea isn't to dupe every pro-am that would want to come to the comp; in fact, as an example, of the 2 competitions we have here in Nashville, one posts the prices on the website and the other doesn't.  But that doesn't mean that the other competition is trying to hide anything, at least on the comp's end.
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catsmeow
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« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2010, 08:16:37 PM »

I agree with you EE about taking private lessons with a pro. I tried doing that a year ago and was asked flat out by the other pros watching if I was changing to pro am. I wanted to get the feeling of what it was like to dance at a different level . I didnt want to exclude my partner at all. In fact I want to let her have the next lessons all to herself with our main male standard coach. But she doesnt agree with that strategy.
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skipper
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« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2010, 11:59:16 PM »

This has come up recently - so please NO NAMES OF COMPETITIONS PLEASE!!
!![Mods please edit imediately if you see any specific references]

If you enter an AM or PRO event you go to the competiton web site and download the forms.  Look up the entry fees and pay them.  And thats about it.

If, however, you want to enter a pro/am competition you can do it either through your pro or directly with the competition yourself.  Or can you???
Some competitions make this your choice - I have been putting in my own pro/am entries for a while now.  That takes pressure off my pro and it suits me fine.  But this is not always easy because some competitions will not post the prices of the pro-am entries on the web site.  

The only reason I can think of this is to let the studios add an extra fee to the entries if they so choose.  IMO that is plain scalping since the studio/pro does nothing for that extra money - its a studio tax - and worse than that its a secret one.  A good pro (and lots of the ones I know are just that) will give you a full breakdown on your costs - travel, food, entries and dance fees (pro fee for doing each dance or however you organize it).  

But maybe I missed something.  Does anyone know of another reason why the AM should not know how much the entry fees are to the competition? The studio I work with is very clear - here are the entry costs, the professional expenses and the "per day" out of studio expense. It makes sese to me. If the pro is in the studio teaching, the studio makes $$$. If the pro is "out of the studio" the studio does not make $$$.
here are alot of ongoing expenses in keeping a studio open - a recptionist,manager, utilities, insurance, rent, medical benefits, retirement, paid sick days, paid holidays etc.
That pro continues to receive those benefits---so the daily rate needs to be paid. Most studio teachers have a day off after they get back from a comp.



[skipper - please try to write after the last [/quote] if you are using the quick-reply window and outside the quote in the regular window - else its hard to find your text]

If the studio needs to add a fee why can't simply and honestly just add an extra fee without pretending that its what the competition organizers charged?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2010, 04:34:38 AM by elisedance » Logged
emeralddancer
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« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2010, 10:03:51 PM »

from discussions I have had with various people. Some comps do not offer fees up front for the world to see so the studios (regardless if chain or independent) can make the fee structor. Depends on the comp.

ALSO I believe it is wise NOT to advertise fees at all for comps, studios or instructors on websites. They should be available by calling the organizer, studio, pro or in writing. THIS is completely from a practical government stand point for the businesses themselves. (to protect themselves)

Each instructor has different fees for entering into pro/am. Could be different regions, states, studios, etc .... even between different students. It is AMAZING some of the things I have seen in black and white and charges in the pro/am arena. But if the pro or comp organizer can get it. So be it.

This is NOT my personal opinion. it simply just is.

My personal opinion is full disclosure. I would like to know 100% of what my money is going towards. I also would like to see something that is a bit more fair to any amateur that competes with their pro. Not necessarily a standard across the board, but more of a minimum you can charge a amateur and a maximum. Regardless if it is a chain or independent.

But then I to am also against the who governing body too unless there is in place a good accountability factor. I sometimes tend to think that these governing bodies while supposedly are doing good things and looking out for dancers. Really are only looking out for themselves.

I see both sides and really as yet to have a very firm opinion of one way or another.

skipper to answer your question ... simplest of terms i would think is because they do not want to do business that way.
There are (unfortunately) to many people out there that rather be shady and mis use their position as an instructor or a dance school. AND this is an effective means to really stick to a student(s) that are wealthier or gullible and make rather quick money and in reality do very little.
AND there are some who think they are simply just "worth" that kind of monies and there ARE people who WILL pay really outrageous fees.

Crazy I know .... but commerce at its best yes?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2010, 10:09:13 PM by emeralddancer » Logged

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MrsMoose
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« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2010, 10:13:06 AM »

I hope I can contribute and jump in here.

I do only Pro/Am. I see this as not paying for attention but paying for a partner that I would probably otherwise not have.

I have a husband, he is very supportive, even will take a lesson here an there for fun but he will never be serious and he will never compete. It's not his thing. He encourages me and even pays for me to enjoy my sport as he has his favorite sport.

Now with that said, I pay for a top dancer, who teachers me, and who competes with me, and we will never fall out over practice schedule time, who made a mistake, why we lost, and which comps to go to.  I see it for myself personally and this is my opinon for me and how I see it, it works. It's expensive but it works for me.

Am I paying for attention, depends on how one looks at it. Any lesson you take with a professional is paying for attention. I admit, I take only private lessons. I dance with my Pro and yes he focusus his attention on me but how else am I to lern.

I also have someone who makes me look good on the dance floor, makes me feel good about my dancing and makes it fun for me. It took me a while to find this particular one and I think finding the right PRO is just as difficult as finding the right AM partner. Just because you are paying doesnt' mean the Pro and you are a good fit.  JMHO.


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MrsMoose
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« Reply #43 on: March 17, 2010, 10:15:51 AM »

No answer the other issues

I think you should be able to enter whatever catagory you want if it is age/level appropriate for you.

I hope that makes sense.

I don't think you should be forced to do single dance to enter scholarships.

I don't do scholarships. I'm not there yet. Maybe one day, maybe I'll never feel I'm there.

I compete to measure my ability of others and to have fun.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that is just my opinion
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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2010, 11:42:57 AM »

I hope I can contribute and jump in here.

I do only Pro/Am. I see this as not paying for attention but paying for a partner that I would probably otherwise not have.

I have a husband, he is very supportive, even will take a lesson here an there for fun but he will never be serious and he will never compete. It's not his thing. He encourages me and even pays for me to enjoy my sport as he has his favorite sport.

Now with that said, I pay for a top dancer, who teachers me, and who competes with me, and we will never fall out over practice schedule time, who made a mistake, why we lost, and which comps to go to.  I see it for myself personally and this is my opinon for me and how I see it, it works. It's expensive but it works for me.

Am I paying for attention, depends on how one looks at it. Any lesson you take with a professional is paying for attention. I admit, I take only private lessons. I dance with my Pro and yes he focusus his attention on me but how else am I to lern.

I also have someone who makes me look good on the dance floor, makes me feel good about my dancing and makes it fun for me. It took me a while to find this particular one and I think finding the right PRO is just as difficult as finding the right AM partner. Just because you are paying doesnt' mean the Pro and you are a good fit.  JMHO.



I don't think you will get any argument with what you write above here - many of us have been there and understand.

The problem for me though is that it seems to be impossible to really overcome the two reasons that keep pro/am couples together: one is the dance partnership (as I recall, I stimulated a lot of 'discussion' suggesting that it was a partnership on DF) and the other is the paid arrangement.  Just practically, if you are half way through solving something during a lesson the former is every reason to keep on working until you solve it, whereas the latter is every reason to stop (its not paid for).  

I have seen a lot of situations where one pro's AMs get possessive of him - and I can understand why.  A dance partnership is a working relationship but it also has its intimate aspects - you are after all in each others private space and you are working very closely to achieve a particular end - but then you have to come to terms with the fact that the pro is doing the same thing with multiple other AMs.   This raises all sorts of complexities - not least of sincerety.  I'm not saying it can't be done but ballancing these two forces is very hard and can lead to an equal number of difficulties.

And now I am off topic, but somehow it needed to be here...
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The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
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