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Author Topic: Cost of going to a pro-am comp  (Read 2884 times)
cornutt
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« on: May 20, 2009, 08:25:32 PM »

To revive a topic that disappeared due to a software glitch...

If you are a pro-am dancer and you are taking your pro to a comp, what do you expect to have to pay for?  And in return, what do you think you should get?  Here's how it usually shakes out for the comps we go to:

We pay the cost of a package, which includes a set number of heats, entry fees, and the fees for the pro for the weekend.  Usually the hotel is also included, although it depends on the comp.  If the comp supplies meals, that is included too.  If we want to dance additional heats, that's a la carte.  They add small upcharges (a few dollars per) to the heats; the other stuff that is bundled in the package (entry fees, hotel, etc.) is at cost.  The fees for the pro depends on how many students are going; if the pro has other students competing, the per-student cost comes down. 

What we get for our money: Of course, actually dancing with us in our heats is included, as is access to coaching and advice during the day.  Before the comp, they advise us on which heats to dance, and take care of the entry paperwork.  The pro acts as our interface to the comp organizers.  When we arrive, they round up the credentials/tickets and the programs, and make sure that every student gets theirs.  If there is some problem with our entries, they take care of it.  They also usually take care of booking the hotel rooms, and straightening out any reservation screwups. 

If we're driving, they often provide transportation.  They offer up their vehicles, or rent one if we need something bigger; they take care of the gas, and we take turns driving.
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dancingfool
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« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2009, 11:25:09 PM »

This is quite similar to what goes on in both of studios that I have danced out of in the past 8 years.

You didn't mention if any of your studio pros are still competing in the pro divisions or not.

Mine is, so he limits the number of students that he dances with in Pro-Am at comp - a maximum of 4.  While we cover all the costs associated with him being there to compete with us we never pay the professional entry fees for his events with his pro partner. 

Also, I compete in scholarship events.  Do you and what is the arrangement for prize money?  I won the B division 5 dance rhythm once.  As long as I used the winnings towards dance, I was allowed to keep all of it.  I used it to pay off my costume (the same one that I danced in and won). These days I give him 50% of all my prize money.  There seems to be lots of variation on this out there.  I know that some students have to give 100% of prize money to their Pro.
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QPO
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« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2009, 04:51:59 AM »

Interesting, I have yet to be involved in these sorts of negotiations. My input to this is that any decisions should be made well prior to the actual event so it does not create stress at the event and impede your performance.
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« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2009, 04:52:21 AM »

Nice to see your post DF...
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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2009, 05:30:07 AM »

This is quite similar to what goes on in both of studios that I have danced out of in the past 8 years.

You didn't mention if any of your studio pros are still competing in the pro divisions or not.

Mine is, so he limits the number of students that he dances with in Pro-Am at comp - a maximum of 4.  While we cover all the costs associated with him being there to compete with us we never pay the professional entry fees for his events with his pro partner. 

Also, I compete in scholarship events.  Do you and what is the arrangement for prize money?  I won the B division 5 dance rhythm once.  As long as I used the winnings towards dance, I was allowed to keep all of it.  I used it to pay off my costume (the same one that I danced in and won). These days I give him 50% of all my prize money.  There seems to be lots of variation on this out there.  I know that some students have to give 100% of prize money to their Pro.


that is, frankly, outrageous.  Its called 'schollarship' because it is supposed to support the pro-AM in his/her dance development.  I have NEVER given schollarship money to a pro - except as part payment of the usual fees associated with going to a competition.

This is one of the reasons pro/am competitors need an association - to establish published norms for what should be, and what should not be the costs of competition.  Standard costs for competitions and even premium fees for top pro partners are all legit - but taking someone's prize which after all they paid for (thats what pro/am is all about) is nothing short of scalping.

IMO the only circumstance where the pro would be entitled to a share of the prize is if he/she did not charge for the competition (and yes, I do know of one such pro).
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StageKat
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« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2009, 06:07:20 AM »

I was gonna say... the AM partner should get the scholarship $... I don't compete...but I have lots of friends that do and not a single one of them from a chain or independent studio have shared their scholarship winnings. Granted they usually go right back into purchasing lessons... but that's up to the student.

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elisedance
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« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2009, 06:13:22 AM »

I have to put it back - else my Am status would be in jeopardy (but in reality its WAY less than the cost of the competition so its really moot).
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LucyDiamond
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« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2009, 10:07:25 AM »

I would never give my pro any scholarship winnings. At the end of the day, he probably gets it anyway since I would use it for future lessons.  Wink
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cornutt
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« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2009, 11:10:49 AM »

You didn't mention if any of your studio pros are still competing in the pro divisions or not.


No, they don't compete as pros any more.  I agree that if your pro is going to compete as a pro in addition to doing pro-am, then the pro should be contributing part of the cost themselves -- in effect, counting themselves as another student. 

I too have never heard of a pro that demands that scholarship money be turned over to them.  However, I have been to events where the scholarship money was not given to the student at all; the comp sends it directly to the studio, with the understanding that it will be credited towards the student's lessons.
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elisedance
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« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2009, 11:35:40 AM »

well, thats reasonable as long as the studio respects that.  Trouble is what happens if they don't?  The check should simply go to the winner - which is the pro/am student and not the teacher.  He/she was paid for the service.
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dancingfool
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« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2009, 12:07:40 PM »

Just to clarify - he didn't ask me for 50% of the prize money.  That was my decision.

Am I breaking some kind of unwritten rule?  Oops...  Undecided
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elisedance
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« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2009, 01:39:32 PM »

Not at all (the whole wonderful and crazy thing about pro/am is that there ARE no rules!!) - The important thing is that its your choice.  It means that you were given the prize and then did what you wanted with it.

To be honest, I have always taken my pro out for a fancy dinner or lunch after a competition - it makes me feel good and I love to have the 'cool down' period with him.  I probably spend half the prize on that alone Smiley
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elisedance
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« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2009, 01:41:29 PM »

Just to add - I think this is where PDO can really do some good.  I suspect that many AMs and pros too do not know what other proams pay.  This helps the former avoid being abused and also the latter to set reasonable rates.  I'd love to hear any feedback if this is (or equally important is not) the case.
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dancingfool
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« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2009, 05:38:35 PM »

I have to put it back - else my Am status would be in jeopardy (but in reality its WAY less than the cost of the competition so its really moot).

You have that right - my scholarship prize money didn't even cover 50% of my entry fees (don't even start adding in admission tickets, hotel, meals, pro fees ...) 

Nobody should enter scholarship events with the thought of recouping their competition costs ... time for a reality check if you do... (pardon the pun)  Cheesy
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elisedance
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« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2009, 06:32:33 PM »

Many competitions even have rules that you have to enter '10 single dance' events or something such to make sure that every competitor, even the first placed one, will spend more than they get. 

'Scholarship' is really nonsense except at the biggest comps.  its still the pro they are luring though ('top teacher' award - what a joke), not the pro-amer. 

Are any pro-am couples enticed to competitions by bonuses as are given to pro (and I think Am) couples?  We should have a thread on this....
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