Jive

[TangoDancer]

Now, if we could please get this thread back on topic, about how jive as an element of International Latin is danced.  In fact, I'll even pose a question for TD based on an earlier post of his--if jive is being danced too "heavy" and down into the floor, how does one create the light, "up" look? 

Thanks, MC. It is most difficult. By heavy and down, I mean dancing/stepping by placing the feet to the floor... taking the step, as it were. To acheive the up action/look, one must dance by lifting the foot from the floor. Of course, a step will still be made, but the action will be completely different as the accent, or impulse, will be one of lifting rather than one of stepping.

Unfortunately, it seems as difficult to write as it is to do (much, much simpler when teaching/showing).  I hope this helps. I will still, sometime today, try to find an apropos vid for you guys.

[albanaich]

To repeat (again) East Coast Swing is NOT considered a Swing Dance by Swing Dancers in the USA or anywhere else.

It is a Ballroom Dance in the sense that International Tango and International Latin are considered something sepreate and unrelated to Argentine Tango and Salsa.

ECS is a Ballroom Dance, specially designed and created for Ballroom students by the Arthur Murray dance studio's in the 1940's. It has been specifically designed so remove 'Swing' (improvisation and syncopation) that is integral to Swing dance.

[elisedance]

OK. NO MORE DISCUSSION OF HISTORY IN THIS TOPIC!!!
I made a board just for it in the General area and if no one here objects I intend to copy all the relevant posts from here (when I have a moment) so that we can, as MC requested, get BOT.

[pinkstuff]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FumvKIyL8uk (ok, not a teaching video & I happen to also like it  )

Does this show the 'up' action that is being talked about?

Also found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tJBYwrZxaw (but presume this is the heavier look??)

Am having my jive technique modified which is proving to be harder than I thought after 2 years of a different technique.... - I think the aim is up!!

[pinkstuff]

Or this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxsf4oeLkgg&feature=rec-fresh+div-f-6-HM

Sorry, suddenly just started finding lots of interesting videos.  I like how Bryan says it is so simple - if only!!

[MusicChica]

OK. NO MORE DISCUSSION OF HISTORY IN THIS TOPIC!!!
I made a board just for it in the General area and if no one here objects I intend to copy all the relevant posts from here (when I have a moment) so that we can, as MC requested, get BOT.

Might I also suggest that this thread be off-limits for nomenclature/semantics arguments?  We're in one of the ballroom forums--if you want to discuss the different forms of swing and/or their street/club versions, feel free to do that in the actual Swing forum.  But here, we refer to the swing-based dances as they are referred to in the competitive ballroom world.  Period.

Thanks, MC. It is most difficult. By heavy and down, I mean dancing/stepping by placing the feet to the floor... taking the step, as it were. To acheive the up action/look, one must dance by lifting the foot from the floor. Of course, a step will still be made, but the action will be completely different as the accent, or impulse, will be one of lifting rather than one of stepping.

Unfortunately, it seems as difficult to write as it is to do (much, much simpler when teaching/showing).  I hope this helps. I will still, sometime today, try to find an apropos vid for you guys.

I'm almost positive I know what you're talking about, TD.  And fear not, LOL--I at least have always been taught that the accent in jive is on the "up" and not the "down!"

[TangoDancer]

I'm almost positive I know what you're talking about, TD.  And fear not, LOL--I at least have always been taught that the accent in jive is on the "up" and not the "down!"

Bravo! I know that I'm not the only one who knows this.   

[TangoDancer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FumvKIyL8uk (ok, not a teaching video & I happen to also like it  )

Does this show the 'up' action that is being talked about?

Also found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tJBYwrZxaw (but presume this is the heavier look??)

The first vid shows it nicely (in the limited bit of basics that they dance). The second is ok, too. Not as good, but one can tell that the intent is there. Re the vid of your other post, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxsf4oeLkgg&feature=rec-fresh+div-f-6-HM, I do not like this one. Bryan is well respected, of course, but in this vid he is concentrating on timings and body swing (points of technique), and, IMO, leaving the action of the dance wanting. This is a grave error, b/c the tech of swing is probably of the most acceptably lacking in BR. The dance is defined by its action and character.

[albanaich]

Awesome video. . . . .

It assumes that all music is six beat in structure and that there will be no syncopations.

Sorry Bryan, but most music has a 32 beat phrasing pattern based on beat 8 elements.

If you dance nothing but six beat you will ALWAYS be out of time with the musical rhtythm.

This will of course win competitions in Ballroom latin - but have the Swing community fall about laughing.

[pinkstuff]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FumvKIyL8uk (ok, not a teaching video & I happen to also like it  )

Does this show the 'up' action that is being talked about?

Also found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tJBYwrZxaw (but presume this is the heavier look??)

The first vid shows it nicely (in the limited bit of basics that they dance). The second is ok, too. Not as good, but one can tell that the intent is there. Re the vid of your other post, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxsf4oeLkgg&feature=rec-fresh+div-f-6-HM, I do not like this one. Bryan is well respected, of course, but in this vid he is concentrating on timings and body swing (points of technique), and, IMO, leaving the action of the dance wanting. This is a grave error, b/c the tech of swing is probably of the most acceptably lacking in BR. The dance is defined by its action and character.

Thanks - I think I know what you mean now, and seems to be what I am taught, definately up action, not aiming down!

[ZPomeroy]

So is this an accurate description then? The swing of the hips is similar to the arc of a parabola, after the link rock the right hip should be pushed out while the left leg first returns under the body and then moves to position directly under the left shoulder on the inside of the foot, this creates a large push out of the right hip. As you place weight onto the left leg the the pelvis returns to a neutral position and the right leg moves under the body (ie. the skip). Weight is placed onto the right leg while a small step is taken with the left finishing the parabolic arc with the left hip pushing out. Then the reverse is repeated in the opposite way. Weight is kept well forward throughout. Is that correct?

Zac

[TangoDancer]

IMO, almost 100% correct. 2 points.....

1- swing/jive are not push action dances, they are pull action dances. Replace in your post, the words 'push' with 'pull' (from the inside edges of the feet).

2- #1 will help to better define the 'skip' which is more the result of the lift from the pulling actions, rather than the stepping under.