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Author Topic: Jive  (Read 6803 times)
MusicChica
Intermediate Silver
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Posts: 1325


« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2010, 12:19:15 AM »

...And that Wikipedia is never a valid source anywhere, at any time, for anything.
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albanaich
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 236


« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2010, 05:28:42 AM »

Wikipedia is a much more valid source than many on the internet, especially since it is the product of open debate. It is an expression of agreed facts, which can be challenged. It is not composed of facts which may be chosen to fit a particular agenda. One might say its an 'improvised' Encyclopdie. The trouble with Wikipedia is that it often disagree's with popular opinion, which is generally the product of a tightly controlled US media.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4530930.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4840340.stm

One only has to see the battle over entries on the occupation of Palestine to see why groups of individuals are working hard to invalidate Wik


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albanaich
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 236


« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2010, 05:39:49 AM »

[gratuitous insults against other posters; removed by moderator]
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 11:10:23 PM by cornutt » Logged
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
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Posts: 35013


ee


« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2010, 07:09:29 AM »

...And that Wikipedia is never a valid source anywhere, at any time, for anything.

Actually I don't agree with this - I'm a scientist and I find that wiki often has better factual content than many of the reviews that I read.  Often the best and broadest minded people contribute there.  I can only speak for my own area of course and maybe its unreliable in yours...
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Vagabond
Intermediate Silver
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Posts: 1333


~ Mai Più Senza! ~


« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2010, 08:38:24 AM »

...And that Wikipedia is never a valid source anywhere, at any time, for anything.

Actually I don't agree with this - I'm a scientist and I find that wiki often has better factual content than many of the reviews that I read.  Often the best and broadest minded people contribute there.  I can only speak for my own area of course and maybe its unreliable in yours...
Hmm.......... the reason why we discourage students from using Wikipedia as a reference is because the content is often open to abuse and simply not always verified. They (Wikipedia) have acknowledge that fact, however it can be used as an initial source to gain further sources if available, peer reviewed and verifiable
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Dancing with the feet is one thing, but dancing with the heart is another.
albanaich
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 236


« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2010, 10:02:05 AM »

Wikipedia is not a definitive source - but then nothing is, we must read everything with a questioning mind.

One of the benefits of Wikipedia, especially from a students point of view, is that if you look at the discussion pages you can often see arguements for and against a particular opinion or viewpoint, as such Wiki is often a very good starting point for more in depth reaseach.

We have Anton Wegener, Charles Darwin The  Phlogiston Theory,  Spontaenous Generation, Piltdown Man and numerous other people and idea's to tell us that the individual 'crank' is quite often right and while the whole of the 'peer review' system is wrong.

Charles Darwin in particular waited some 30 years before discussing his theorey of evolution because he felt the scientific community would be unable to accept it. It was only when there was sufficient support with the community that he was prepared to publish.



« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 10:20:18 AM by albanaich » Logged
SwingWaltz
Gold Star
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Posts: 5772


« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2010, 10:37:25 AM »

Actually I don't agree with this - I'm a scientist and I find that wiki often has better factual content than many of the reviews that I read. 

Amen!  Roll Eyes
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cdnsalsanut
Bronze
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Posts: 256



« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2010, 11:41:10 AM »

Thank you all for this lively and entertaining debate. I am so glad that civility won out and we can all just agree and disagree and agree to disagree. It is an ongoing education for me and I thank you all for being a part of that.

One thing we all have in common, obviously, is a passion for dance. We can respect that in each other...
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"There are short-cuts to happiness, and dancing is one of them."
~Vicki Baum
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
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Posts: 35013


ee


« Reply #38 on: January 09, 2010, 11:55:10 AM »

One thing we all have in common, obviously, is a passion for dance. We can respect that in each other...

Appears the arguments swing this way and that
.
.
.
.
.But they never quite jibe

Tongue
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
albanaich
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 236


« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2010, 12:16:52 PM »

Now you are taking the discussion on a completely different tack. . . . . .

Quote
One thing we all have in common, obviously, is a passion for dance. We can respect that in each other...

For sure. . . . .that's why we are here
« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 12:32:11 PM by albanaich » Logged
cdnsalsanut
Bronze
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Posts: 256



« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2010, 07:08:18 PM »

OK so history of jive and who said what aside, how do I dance jive properly? I'm doing international style jive.

Rock step. I've learned I'm supposed to point my toe on the front leg. For the triple step i've learned a few different ways to do it, both from teachers (most of which I've forgotten) and video. Can the jive experts suggest ways to get the right look; ie the technique on the chasse and the bounce? Would be much appreciated and that's no jive.

csn
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"There are short-cuts to happiness, and dancing is one of them."
~Vicki Baum
Vagabond
Intermediate Silver
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Posts: 1333


~ Mai Più Senza! ~


« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2010, 08:58:53 PM »


Charles Darwin in particular waited some 30 years before discussing his theorey of evolution because he felt the scientific community would be unable to accept it. It was only when there was sufficient support with the community that he was prepared to publish.

Actually he was forced to publish because of a paper he read in 1858 by Alfred Russel Wallace on the Introduction of species. feared that he had been hindered by it, he wrote a shorter, concised version of "on the origin of species" and published it, although even then there wasn't much support for his theory within the scientific community. However the book became unexpectedly popular outside of the naturalist community and it was because of his close friends Gray, Hooker, Huxley and Lyell, whom at that time, still expressed various reservations but gave strong support, that his theory became internationally accepted.

Anton Wegener I don't know of, however Alfred Wegener, the great palaeontologist/geologist I do
« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 09:16:54 PM by Vagabond » Logged

Dancing with the feet is one thing, but dancing with the heart is another.
albanaich
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 236


« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2010, 03:59:44 AM »

Yes I am well aware of the story concerning the publishing of Charles Darwin's theory of evolution. The point was, and still is, that he feared the envitiable attacks from the establishment, both relgious and scientific, that his ideas would provoke. As it happened, it was the right time for the idea to gain broad acceptance.

One might contrast with Anton Wegner who was the object of abuse as a charlatan by the scientific community for his work on Plate Tectonics.

As Mark Twain observered, 'the man with an idea is crank - until the idea succeeds,'

As for help with International Jive, I'm not an expert, but it's worth considering that the 'bounce' element in Intl Jive comes from the Chalrlston step than is used in Lindy.

In Lindy the Charleston step is a seperate elelment from the swing out component of the dance, however the ballroom community incorporated the Charleston 'bounce' into every step of ballroom Jive to create that 'bouncy' look that is unique to ECS and Ballroom Jive.

Styling of the Internation 'bounce' step is different from the Charleston but the idea is the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7jwJj3R5aU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLCcL0Q-G5A&feature=related

I always think Ballroom Jive is marvellous to look at - but you can't 'do' anything with it because it doesn't allow for anchors.







« Last Edit: January 10, 2010, 04:47:57 AM by albanaich » Logged
TangoDancer
Open Bronze
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Posts: 736



« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2010, 05:08:56 AM »

OK so history of jive and who said what aside, how do I dance jive properly? I'm doing international style jive.

Rock step. I've learned I'm supposed to point my toe on the front leg. For the triple step i've learned a few different ways to do it, both from teachers (most of which I've forgotten) and video. Can the jive experts suggest ways to get the right look; ie the technique on the chasse and the bounce? Would be much appreciated and that's no jive.

csn

As promised, I tried to help Alba, and said that I would not get into it with him, and I refuse to. He is wrong; doesn't want to be right; just wants to argue a point. I will debate an issue, but never argue a point.

To answer your post, CSN.... The general term "swing" takes its name from the movements of the 'swing' bands, and the movements of the bodies in copying such. Jive (jitterbug) is a type of swing, thus, should have some swing in it. However, the acquired action of the dance is a skipping and up action, and the swing becomes a more secondary movement. It is ludicrous to say that the jive is a dumbed down swing, when it is, actually, much more difficult to dance well. Here are the key points:
  • - begin w/ the left rock step (do not push forward as in all other rock steps)
    - dance the rock step with a latin hip action very similar to that of american rumba place (down and under)
    - place the left foot, tip of toe first, 'directly' under the shoulder, and with the skip action, pull the right foot to the left (care to keep the hip down)
    - place the left foot to the side (small step), and allow the hip to swing out
    - a small skip action to the left completes the movement
    - repeat to the right

Of course, it is very difficult to 'teach' something like this over cyberspace, but I hope it helps.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2010, 05:11:11 AM by TangoDancer » Logged

The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
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Posts: 35013


ee


« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2010, 05:19:25 AM »


Charles Darwin in particular ...

[etc.  Interesting stuff - but can we put it somewhere else?  I can make a new board even....]
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
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