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Author Topic: Foxtrot - advanced  (Read 7435 times)
Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2009, 05:54:38 PM »


If you had told me about this three months ago, I would've been like  Huh  Undecided  Cry 

Since a few "aha!" moments, this makes perfect sense as it's the secret weapon in my arsenal.  Well, actually, it's one of two components of my secret weapon.  The first component is a gentle but direct "impulse" with my center to lead my partner.  Once my partner's is on her way, I "faint" along with her for the ride.  It's one of those very elusive actions that I could never understand by watching videos or live pros.  Now that I understand it, I see all the top pros do it.  To me, it's the X-factor that creates good movement.  It's very much applicable to men because men have to use the "fainting" to follow through with their lead.  Otherwise the lady will feel like the man is too aggressive and not giving them "space".  I'm doing a terrible job of explaining it, but suffice it to say that it changes dancing from being "fun" to "magical" overnight.   

Many will    Roll Eyes  then Huh Cry Shocked before they really get it. At least you were willing to try, experiment and do, so therefore you got it.

It is a very "secret weapon". Actually it is written in the technique books, people just don't see it. Wink You know the idea of putting a secret right in front of people and therefore they don't see it. Well, that is what was done to this secret. My teacher use to say that there are some things you just can't see and therefore must learn from somebody that knows. If you have never experienced this then how can you tell, let alone teach somebody else to do this.

Quote
Once my partner's is on her way, I "faint" along with her for the ride.

I just love this way of saying it. That is basically what my partner used to say when he would say "he hangs on for the ride". I think you are doing a great job explaining it. Well done SG
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Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2009, 05:58:46 PM »

thanks for the input SG - I really want to hear it from a lead.  I only do fainting in the forward direction - is that true for you too?

Yes, both the man and the lady "faint". In the Body School of Thought you should actually "faint" both forward and backward. The timing of the "fainting" forward and backward are a little different so that you don't "faint" away from you DP.
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"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
elisedance
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ee


« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2009, 06:10:12 PM »

but I feel the backward action to be different from the forward - less a feint and more a sort of backward leap.  I don't want to go into the ground but come out of it....
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Some guy
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« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2009, 06:32:44 PM »

thanks for the input SG - I really want to hear it from a lead.  I only do fainting in the forward direction - is that true for you too?

BTW the lead for me to go backwards is not an impulse from the centre, as you describe it, but a raising of hte frame so that my body arches backwards slightly - that is my signal to go and the lead had better be a good follower (and yes, I mean that)....
I used to think I needed to do it only when going forwards, but doing it going backwards did wonders for my dancing and my partner now thanks me for the fact that her shoulder and neck doesn't hurt anymore.  Also, our reverse wave is a dream to dance now (it used to be our worst pattern as I would constantly complain that she felt "heavy").  If I move any other way backwards I have a tendency to leave my partner behind with my body even 'though my frame still drags her towards me.  So with my body sending her away and my frame trying to hold on to her, it was a no-brainer that she felt "heavy"... through no fault of her's.  This causes her left shoulder and neck to strain.   When I "faint", while going backwards, I take her with me and we maintain harmony without any extra effort. 

Yes, the raising of the frame is probably a tiny by-product of the impulse I mentioned.  It's almost an unconscious "stretch" of the body like a rubber band before being fired at somebody.  The frame raising is certainly not intentional.  I can easily spot this on Jonathan Wilkins.  You can see it very clearly in his Waltz performance on the World Super Stars Dance Festival.  It's clearest in his movements before he starts actually dancing in closed hold.  Of course, it became clear to see only AFTER I was able to understand this concept.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 06:34:56 PM by Some guy » Logged
Dora-Satya Veda
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Posts: 6871


« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2009, 06:36:32 PM »

but I feel the backward action to be different from the forward - less a feint and more a sort of backward leap.  I don't want to go into the ground but come out of it....

Yes, yes I do agree, it does feel different. I totally agree but in principle they are just about the same. The way that the “BSoT” (Body School of Thought) teach it, is to “faint”, then “leap” and then “drift”. It should feel like a child on a swing set, fast down, powerful up swing and then fading out to start all over again. You should never ”faint” down but “faint” across the floor. I hope this makes sense….
« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 07:27:18 PM by Dora-Satya Veda » Logged

"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2009, 06:39:47 PM »

I used to think I needed to do it only when going forwards, but doing it going backwards did wonders for my dancing and my partner now thanks me for the fact that her shoulder and neck doesn't hurt anymore.  Also, our reverse wave is a dream to dance now (it used to be our worst pattern as I would constantly complain that she felt "heavy").  If I move any other way backwards I have a tendency to leave my partner behind with my body even 'though my frame still drags her towards me.  So with my body sending her away and my frame trying to hold on to her, it was a no-brainer that she felt "heavy"... through no fault of her's.  This causes her left shoulder and neck to strain.   When I "faint", while going backwards, I take her with me and we maintain harmony without any extra effort. 

Yes, the raising of the frame is probably a tiny by-product of the impulse I mentioned.  It's almost an unconscious "stretch" of the body like a rubber band before being fired at somebody.  The frame raising is certainly not intentional.  I can easily spot this on Jonathan Wilkins.  You can see it very clearly in his Waltz performance on the World Super Stars Dance Festival.  It's clearest in his movements before he starts actually dancing in closed hold.  Of course, it became clear to see only AFTER I was able to understand this concept.

Very nicely and clearly put SG.
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"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
Some guy
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« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2009, 06:46:57 PM »

Hey Dora!  Didn't see your response yes as I was too busy composing mine!  It was great to get your affirmation.

It is a very "secret weapon". Actually it is written in the technique books, people just don't see it. Wink You know the idea of putting a secret right in front of people and therefore they don't see it. Well, that is what was done to this secret.

It's written in the book?!  Where?!?!?!??!?!  The biggest regret I have is that I didn't figure this out when I first started dancing years ago! I see all the top dancers doing it.  It takes the effort out of dancing, partnering, leading, following... it's a very powerful tool!

I just love this way of saying it. That is basically what my partner used to say when he would say "he hangs on for the ride". I think you are doing a great job explaining it. Well done SG

The feeling really depends on who I'm dancing with.  My partner is more like an elegant sail boat.  My partner is much more gentle, and when I gently impulse her, she goes floating on her way taking me gently with her.  Cool  On the other hand, my female coach is more like the Starship Enterprise.  When I use my center to gently impulse my coach, it's like "gently" engaging Warp Drive (!).  For a split second, you can almost see me in two places at once on the dance floor.  Shocked

« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 06:54:12 PM by Some guy » Logged
Some guy
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« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2009, 06:52:49 PM »

The way that the “BSoT” (Body School of Thought) teach it, is to “faint”, then “leap” and then “drift”. It should feel like a child on a swing set, fast down, powerful up swing and then fading out to start all over again. You should never”faint” down but “faint” across the floor. I hope thins makes sense….

That's the best explanation by far.  It's a perfect description of what I experience!  It really does feel like being on a swing set!
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Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2009, 07:20:46 PM »

Hey Dora!  Didn't see your response yes as I was too busy composing mine!  It was great to get your affirmation.
I totally understand SG. The composing of a post can sometimes be a big job. You are very welcome on the affirmation part. You did do a great job explaining it. Well done.

Quote
It's written in the book?!  Where?!?!?!??!?!  The biggest regret I have is that I didn't figure this out when I first started dancing years ago!  I see everybody who's half-way decent doing it.  It takes the effort out of dancing, partnering, leading, following... it's a very powerful tool!

ROTFLMAO yes, yes, yes, it was written in the technique books for everybody to see and nobody to notice. Just a second… ROTFL. Let me ask you a question here and you will answer the question yourself. Wink It is called “Rise and Huh??”! So do you see it now?? Go in the front of the book and read the part on “Rise and Huh?” and there you have it. I think most dancers can answer this question within their first year of dancing. They just don't know what a life lesson it is. It is a like the oxygen masks explanation on the airplanes safety announcement (put you mask on first before helping others). A true life lesson! Wink Smiley

Quote
The feeling really depends on who I'm dancing with.  My partner is more like an elegant sail boat.  My partner is much more gentle, and when I gently impulse her, she goes floating on her way taking me gently with her.  Cool  On the other hand, my female coach is more like the Starship Enterprise.  When I use my center to gently impulse my coach, it's like "gently" engaging Warp Drive (!).  For a split second, you can almost see me in two places at once on the dance floor.  Shocked

Nothing wrong in an elegant sail boat! When you are out on an open sea, you will feel the wind in your face. That is a great feeling. Grin My teacher actually used to call great dancers for “sail boats”. STAR TREK !!!!!Now you are talking my language. Wink I must say I am more like the Voyager according to my partner. He saw me as small but compact with lots of power. My teacher wanted us to be so in tune with one another that just a thought from my partner would “engage” the Warp Drive. One of my students actually said that I made him experience quantum physics of being everywhere in conscious, visual reality. So that you are seen in two places at once is one way of creating volume. Wink LOL
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Edward Teller
catsmeow
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« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2009, 10:42:13 PM »

I am very humbled when I see the use of fainting when dancing. I am still trying to master passing my standing leg without upseting my partner and using my centre to lead.
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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2009, 11:26:35 PM »

but I feel the backward action to be different from the forward - less a feint and more a sort of backward leap.  I don't want to go into the ground but come out of it....

Yes, yes I do agree, it does feel different. I totally agree but in principle they are just about the same. The way that the “BSoT” (Body School of Thought) teach it, is to “faint”, then “leap” and then “drift”. It should feel like a child on a swing set, fast down, powerful up swing and then fading out to start all over again. You should never ”faint” down but “faint” across the floor. I hope this makes sense….

eminently - its entirely consistent with pro's teaching but with a bit more detail - if I put all three of your actions together they have more in them than I have learned - I need to incorporate...
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2009, 11:34:40 PM »

eminently - its entirely consistent with pro's teaching but with a bit more detail - if I put all three of your actions together they have more in them than I have learned - I need to incorporate...

It might be an idea to go play on a swing set and get the feel of the actions before even trying to dance them Wink. Remember if you can see it in your mind, you can create it. And for sure if you can feel it then it is yours to keep.  Grin
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"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
elisedance
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ee


« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2009, 06:25:38 AM »

yes, I didn't mention swing did I?  the great leap backward is achieved by the swing of the leg - and now you've got me longing for a swing.  Its perfect - and was one of my childhood loves...... I wonder if that was a source of the urge to dance?
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Dora-Satya Veda
Gold Star
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Posts: 6871


« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2009, 12:34:53 PM »

Its perfect - and was one of my childhood loves...... I wonder if that was a source of the urge to dance?

It was one of my childhood loves too. Maybe that was what got us into the world of multi directional swings. I just remembered that, I use to imagine being able to swing in all direction both as pendulum and metronome swings. I guess I got my wish…be careful what you wish for as it will come true, but maybe not in the form, you expected.
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"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
elisedance
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Posts: 35042


ee


« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2009, 12:50:32 PM »

In this case, why be careful?  It seems to me it got you exactly where you want to be Smiley

The concept of 'swing' is not trivial since, I think, we tend to learn that dancing is effort where as swing is anything but - its really what happens after effort - or even a way to relax after expending energy: indeed, swing has more to do with relaxation than with force....
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
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