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Author Topic: Foxtrot - advanced  (Read 6198 times)
elisedance
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« on: May 03, 2009, 08:59:30 PM »

Terrific lesson in foxtrot today.  First we completed the open routine - including my favorite (and pro's specialty) reverse waves.  To me they almost epitomize foxtrot.  And they are the vehicle to learning technique for the follow going forward. 

I have been learing about softening the knees and 'fainting' when I go forward - the knees go forward and the body faints backward while maintaining the same centre of gravity.  A big thing for me today on this was to not be too active on 1 - with the softening of the knees there is already forward action.  The other was in the three fallaways - in the fallaway reverse to minimize pivoting actions by directing the foot into the turn - using the outside and inside edges of the foot as necessary. 

The best part was, however, where pro was trying to adjust the routine (we've only had a few lessons on it) in one corner where there is an outside spin into a L hinge - we were coming out in a chasse and into a weave but the timing was not working.  So at that point he came up with a few ideas to solve it.  And thats the best part - each time he would dance it either once by himself or just immediately with me.  The assumption that I would follow for a new sequence is the best compliment a girl can get....  He settled on the lunge into a swivel and the a lunch roll before the chassee..
« Last Edit: May 04, 2009, 11:59:15 AM by elisedance » Logged

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Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2009, 10:41:58 PM »

I have been learing about softening the knees and 'fainting' when I go forward -

That is a very interesting way of putting it “fainting”. I have never heard that action called that before but I agree that does describe the action you need to do forward. It does sound like you are learning some very good stuff there. Keep up the good work.

Quote
And thats the best part - each time he would dance it either once by himself or just immediately with me.  The assumption that I would follow for a new sequence is the best compliment a girl can get.... 

That is a great compliment Elise. Well done. You have come a long way since the beginning of this year. Back then you would have had to know, what step he was going to do, before even attempting to dance it. Now you know, you will get the information when you need it and just respond to the information, when it comes to you. You have done so well. You have really learned at lot in a very short time. Keep up the good work.


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elisedance
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« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2009, 05:46:50 AM »

thank you DSV - its going to be so interesting competing with new-pro - learning by focusing on DIM (Dancing In the Moment for those just joining the story:) ) has given me the security to relax. 

I think this is such an important aspect of ballroom dancing - getting security in what you do, confidence that you will achieve it without difficulty,  is surely the only way to then attain relaxation and from there to be able to express.  I don't know the steps there for a leader but for a follower security comes from knowing that you will follow whatever step your partner leads and you will do it in a way that makes him happy.  And that must, of course, feed back to his confiedence and security - the knowledge that if he has to lead something different than expected you will be right there.



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cornutt
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« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2009, 10:48:37 AM »

I have been learing about softening the knees and 'fainting' when I go forward - the knees go forward and the body faints backward while maintaining the same centre of gravity. 

Can you elaborate on this?  I'm having a hard time picturing it -- I can't envision how it doesn't result in a "squatty" step.  And it seems to contradict the normal teaching about sending your center.
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elisedance
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« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2009, 12:02:48 PM »

I'm getting a lot of contradictions of my previous method of late!  Dancing with pro is focused on maintaining your own balance at all times - very little mutual balance (which is what I am used to). 

So with that intro - I think it critical that during the feint your centre stays where it is - the forward motion you get by bending the knees is countered by a slight backward motion of your body - think of a limbo dancer (hey, thats a great analogy and I just made it up!).  I wish I knew what the lead was doing at that time but have not found out yet - all I know is that without it he's not a happy camper...

Also, I have NEVER danced a reverse wave like this before.... wow...
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cornutt
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« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2009, 12:06:40 PM »


So with that intro - I think it critical that during the feint your centre stays where it is - the forward motion you get by bending the knees is countered by a slight backward motion of your body - think of a limbo dancer (hey, thats a great analogy and I just made it up!).  I wish I knew what the lead was doing at that time but have not found out yet - all I know is that without it he's not a happy camper...

Interesting!  I had always believed that, in general, forwards and backwards movement is the same for both partners.  But from this, it sounds like that may not be quite true.  I'd be curious to hear if he says he does the same thing when he's moving forwards.
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Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2009, 12:25:16 PM »

I'm getting a lot of contradictions of my previous method of late!  Dancing with pro is focused on maintaining your own balance at all times - very little mutual balance (which is what I am used to). 

So with that intro - I think it critical that during the feint your centre stays where it is - the forward motion you get by bending the knees is countered by a slight backward motion of your body - think of a limbo dancer (hey, thats a great analogy and I just made it up!).  I wish I knew what the lead was doing at that time but have not found out yet - all I know is that without it he's not a happy camper...

Also, I have NEVER danced a reverse wave like this before.... wow...

You will probably get a lot of contradictions. With the teachers that you told me your teacher has there is not many on the American continent that teaches that style.

I used the analogy of limbo dancing just last week with three of my students. You are basically lowering vertical and the falling across the floor vertically. My “mother” use to say “you don’t go down to move, you movement takes you down”. My “father” use to say “You should never bend your knees, but when you have a fallen across the floor letting your legs divide, you will appear as if, you have bent the legs. It is an illusion that very few understand and therefore many cause great stress on their knees.” 

You should learn to fall and become fearless of falling to dance this way. I will have to show you ones we meet. I can show you with all my students, they all know how to fall.

Dora-Satya Veda
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elisedance
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« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2009, 02:01:33 PM »

It an amazing sensation when you do it - effortless really.  And yes - I am going to take you up on that offer....
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Rugby
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« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2009, 05:26:42 PM »

Glad to hear that all is going well with the new pro ED. 
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« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2009, 08:27:54 PM »

Elisedance: How will you ever maintain patience with your amateur partner when you switch back and forth with pro. Surely you will end up carrying your amateur partner through the routines. His confidence will not grow. He will not lead the same. You wont follow the same.
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« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2009, 08:37:14 PM »

Elisedance: How will you ever maintain patience with your amateur partner when you switch back and forth with pro. Surely you will end up carrying your amateur partner through the routines. His confidence will not grow. He will not lead the same. You wont follow the same.

Interesting point, how does one do that? To work with two different styles of leading.... Ihave done it soically and it takes me a few rounds to get the hang of their approach it can be done but may not look good straight away.
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elisedance
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« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2009, 05:14:10 AM »

Elisedance: How will you ever maintain patience with your amateur partner when you switch back and forth with pro. Surely you will end up carrying your amateur partner through the routines. His confidence will not grow. He will not lead the same. You wont follow the same.

I must admit I was worried - in particular if it was going to cause us to start to argue because I was not feeling the same with him.  But, interestingly, three things have happened.  First, DP has great respect for pro so if during a practise I say that 'Ive felt it this way' or 'it woudl be nice if i could feel this'  he has been all ears.  Second, if I start using these methods but in a less extreme way - DP has been very happy and he finds its easier to dance with me.  I guess its proof that the way I am learning to dance is simply good mechanics not an exotic fad.  Finally, he is also open to lessons so hopefully he will learn the lead too.

Thus, at least up to now its not been an issue
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Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2009, 03:02:23 PM »

if I start using these methods but in a less extreme way - DP has been very happy and he finds its easier to dance with me.  I guess its proof that the way I am learning to dance is simply good mechanics not an exotic fad. 

If you dance as a true female (using the lady's job) you can dance with any gentleman and at any level that he is at. Actually my teacher use to say that a good lady (a lady that uses the lady's jobs) can dance with anything not just anyone. I know a lady dancer that pride herself by being able to dance with anyone. She has only come across one gentleman that she had trouble with, in her years of experience. She, IMHO is one of the best, if not the best female the US has seen.

So Elise, I think you are right when you learn good mechanics then you can dance with both with no problem. You may not get everything you want and/or would like from DP but you can dance with him.
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« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2009, 04:56:05 PM »

I have been learing about softening the knees and 'fainting' when I go forward - the knees go forward and the body faints backward while maintaining the same centre of gravity.  A big thing for me today on this was to not be too active on 1 - with the softening of the knees there is already forward action. 

If you had told me about this three months ago, I would've been like  Huh  Undecided  Cry 

Since a few "aha!" moments, this makes perfect sense as it's the secret weapon in my arsenal.  Well, actually, it's one of two components of my secret weapon.  The first component is a gentle but direct "impulse" with my center to lead my partner.  Once my partner's is on her way, I "faint" along with her for the ride.  It's one of those very elusive actions that I could never understand by watching videos or live pros.  Now that I understand it, I see all the top pros do it.  To me, it's the X-factor that creates good movement.  It's very much applicable to men because men have to use the "fainting" to follow through with their lead.  Otherwise the lady will feel like the man is too aggressive and not giving them "space".  I'm doing a terrible job of explaining it, but suffice it to say that it changes dancing from being "fun" to "magical" overnight.   
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elisedance
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« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2009, 05:13:53 PM »

thanks for the input SG - I really want to hear it from a lead.  I only do fainting in the forward direction - is that true for you too?

BTW the lead for me to go backwards is not an impulse from the centre, as you describe it, but a raising of hte frame so that my body arches backwards slightly - that is my signal to go and the lead had better be a good follower (and yes, I mean that)....
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

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