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Author Topic: Lead-Follow-Lead  (Read 6009 times)
Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #45 on: May 07, 2009, 10:56:11 PM »

so the man suggests and the lady tempts?

IMHO that is pretty much it Wink Grin
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Edward Teller
Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #46 on: May 07, 2009, 10:57:51 PM »

sounds rather like life...

Yes, doesn't it just... Wink Grin
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Edward Teller
catsmeow
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« Reply #47 on: May 07, 2009, 11:08:01 PM »

I am busy looking around for another male's humbler opinion
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Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #48 on: May 07, 2009, 11:27:28 PM »

I am busy looking around for another male's humbler opinion

Ask and ye shall receive Wink. Be careful what you ask for because you my get it. Wink
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"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
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« Reply #49 on: May 07, 2009, 11:46:40 PM »

Can we tempt them in a hot red dress with nightshade nylons on?  Possibly with a seam up the back.
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Everyone tries to rush up through the syllabus levles and think once they are at the top they have arrived.  What they don't realize is that by doing this it is like skimming through a book, you may get the gist but you will never understand the story.
Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #50 on: May 07, 2009, 11:56:42 PM »

Can we tempt them in a hot red dress with nightshade nylons on?  Possibly with a seam up the back.

I am sure, you can tempt them however you want. I just want to remind you, we are talking ballroom dancing here and not something else.
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Edward Teller
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« Reply #51 on: May 08, 2009, 12:30:36 AM »

Don't worry, I'm just teasing.
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Everyone tries to rush up through the syllabus levles and think once they are at the top they have arrived.  What they don't realize is that by doing this it is like skimming through a book, you may get the gist but you will never understand the story.
Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #52 on: May 08, 2009, 12:40:25 AM »

Don't worry, I'm just teasing.

Hey, if you can get a mean Foxtrot or a dreamy Waltz out of it, then absolutely go for it Wink Grin
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"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
cornutt
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« Reply #53 on: May 08, 2009, 09:39:04 PM »

Can we tempt them in a hot red dress with nightshade nylons on?  Possibly with a seam up the back.

That will work!   Kiss  Anyway, I'm not sure that I have yet experienced what Dora writes about.  Then again, my DW always says that I'm clueless about women tempting me.   Cheesy  Dora, how common do you think this type of interactive lead is in dancing?  Do you think that I might have experienced it and not noticed?  Because this is a somewhat different concept from what i think of as interactive leading.  We generally use the term "conversation" for it, and that'a an analogy that only goes so far, because in a conventional conversation, one person talks while the other person listens, and then vice versa.  And in interactive leading, I'm not sure that's what's actually happening.  Perhaps a better analogy is a couple who have been together for a long time and are always finishing each other's sentences.  But that still doesn't quite capture what you are talking about, I don't think.
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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #54 on: May 08, 2009, 09:47:29 PM »

I used to think I had to check back with the man evry few seconds to see what I should be doing next.  However, now I find I have the luxury of fairly large period of time when I can do what I want to (within the context of what the man signalled).  He's just there.  So some of it at least is he leads I lead (or moreaccurately tempt as D said).  Even when I go all out, however, I am still in ballance so that if the man wanted to change the direction he still could...
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cornutt
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« Reply #55 on: May 08, 2009, 10:26:08 PM »

Describing it that way almost sounds like improvising to jazz charts.  You're at a place where the leader has written in the chord for the next two bars, and then the whole band works at filling it in.  When the band is really clicking, each musician has a good idea what the others are going to do, and so when everybody does their thing, there are no conflicts.  Then they get to the next chord in the chart and fill that in.  A really good improv has that "I don't understand how it is that this is working, but I'm going with it anyway" quality to it. 
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Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #56 on: May 09, 2009, 01:01:07 AM »


I have broken up your post a little, to answer the questions, to the best of my ability. I hope you don’t mind... cornutt.

Anyway, I'm not sure that I have yet experienced what Dora writes about.  Then again, my DW always says that I'm clueless about women tempting me.   Cheesy 

Do you think that I might have experienced it and not noticed?
This first statement and the question is really one and the same thing.

If a lady does her job really well, you should be clueless about it and just find it to be the most natural place to go next. Wink You would really not know why you are going there, it just feels right and you will go there, with a big smile or grin on your face.  Grin

Quote
Dora, how common do you think this type of interactive lead is in dancing?

Now, I haven't tested every female in the US or the world for that matter. Wink The concept are normally introduced to the lady by her dance “mother” by the time the couple are in the top 24 in professional and top 6 in amateur. There might be ladies that do it either because it was taught to them by their dance “mother” prior to reaching that level or they just have a natural instinct about doing it. So there really are several criteria that must happen to get this information. One, the couple must be high ranked and/or the lady must have a “mother” and/or “father” that understands this and is willing to teach it to the lady and/or the lady just do it naturally. It would impossible for me to tell how many that has this but I can tell you, not many. When you watch a couple dancing and you see total harmony, then that lady has it.

Quote
Because this is a somewhat different concept from what i think of as interactive leading.  We generally use the term "conversation" for it, and that's an analogy that only goes so far, because in a conventional conversation, one person talks while the other person listens, and then vice versa.  And in interactive leading, I'm not sure that's what's actually happening.  Perhaps a better analogy is a couple who have been together for a long time and are always finishing each other's sentences.  But that still doesn't quite capture what you are talking about, I don't think.

When you get to this level it becomes so much more then words. Words can actually not describe the interaction between your partner and you. It becomes an interaction between two people’s thoughts and emotions and you can’t separate one person from the other. We know each others thoughts and emotions and use the mind and the body to express the thoughts we share.

Today I was working with two male pro/am teacher/colleagues of mine and their students. We all three of us, tried to explain the chemistry and/or happenings that happen between two people that are in total harmony. We agreed that there just wasn’t a verbal communication that could really truly explain the connection you have, when dancing in total harmony. No words would do the experience justice. None of us had the words to explain what we really felt/feel like or what was really happening between us, we were just two becoming one, is really the best way of explaining it. We were just "being" together in harmony.

Dora-Satya Veda
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Edward Teller
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« Reply #57 on: May 14, 2009, 02:16:43 AM »

Oh, how I wish I had been here for the beginning of this one. EE knows that it is one my favs, and one that I get the most flac on. But, I'm glad to come in right after the post by DSV because we are of the same thoughts. I was taught pretty much the same thing but as "Lead-follow-follow". That the most important part of the movement is the follow. Here's one for you (DSV, you can't answer  Wink ). In a lesson with one of my mentors, he placed a 12" ruler afront of me and at a slight diagonal pointing outward and forward. Next to it, he palced a red. blue, yellow, and white striped rubber ball. He placed me in a modified dance position, and said to look down at the ball and ruler. He said, "When you understand this, you will understand ballroom dance." Then he left the room (at $85/hrwhich = $185 back then).

Any takers? And, yes, it is extremely relevant to the thread.
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
elisedance
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ee


« Reply #58 on: May 14, 2009, 05:20:26 AM »

The ruler signifies space and frame.  The ball your partner, mobile free and yet linked to you by the ruler.
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
TangoDancer
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« Reply #59 on: May 15, 2009, 04:48:31 AM »

Hmmm......  Wink ....almost. Care to try again? A student of mine had a breakthrough on this today. We'll see how he progresses on the next few lessons. Anyone else?
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
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