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Author Topic: Lead-Follow-Lead  (Read 5844 times)
elisedance
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« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2009, 01:55:09 PM »

you put into words exactly what I am currently feeling - a liberation, a freedom to move that I never had before.  As long as you do it within the context of the lead you can actually drive the dancing - the key is knowing the former...
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Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2009, 02:24:25 PM »

you put into words exactly what I am currently feeling - a liberation, a freedom to move that I never had before.  As long as you do it within the context of the lead you can actually drive the dancing - the key is knowing the former...

I remember my partner and I doing a lecture in Japan and a question about leading came up. The students asked “who is leading” both my partner and I answer at the same time “I do”. We could see this really confused the whole group (in Japan the man is called “the leader”).

Let me explain something here. A few days earlier we had a lady come to us and apologies that “her leader” (She said “my leader is sick”) was sick. My partner and looked at each other not understanding what she was trying to saying. After repeating herself a few time she finally said that her partner, the man, was sick. It was not until then we understood what she was saying. That put my partner and me on a campaign, of making the students understand, that we are equally responsible for and in the partnership.

So the man leads? Absolutely YES!!! Does the lady just follow? Absolutely NO!!! Does the lady also lead? Absolutely YES!!! We both have actions that we lead and we both have action that the other person responds to. My teacher actually didn’t allow us to use the term “lead and follow”. He said that implied that one is a master and one is a servant. He was very clear that, that is not the case in dancing. We are equal. He also hated the word follow as to him it meant “expecting to do nothing”. He pointed out that all top couples in history and present time has strong women that are not just following the man’s every whim. A great female dancer can get her partner to do just about anything even if that was not what he had planned. She will do in such a way, that the man feels neither belittled, pushed nor pulled. He will actually believe it was his idea to do what she tempted him to do. The man leads his 4 jobs and the lady leads her 4 jobs. That make us equal and that gives us both a feel of freedom that can not really be explained but have to be felt. It really is a form of perfect harmony between male and female.

Dora-Satya Veda
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catsmeow
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« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2009, 08:32:04 PM »

Dora: somewhere back in the posts the four jobs of the lady were discussed but I never saw a reference to the mans four jobs. Can you tell us more of the mans role?
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Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2009, 08:47:55 PM »

Dora: somewhere back in the posts the four jobs of the lady were discussed but I never saw a reference to the mans four jobs. Can you tell us more of the mans role?

Sure, I can give you those.

I am sure many of you have heard them a gazillion times and maybe even though they were also the responsibility of the lady as well as the man. Remember.....we each have our own responsibilities, please do not mix them up.

OK, they are Timing, Direction, Step/s and Power, in other words When, Where, What and How Much. 

Hope this answers your question

Dora-Satya Veda
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catsmeow
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« Reply #34 on: May 06, 2009, 09:50:20 PM »

Dora: thank-you for the explanation of the man's role. Now, have you ever been tempted to do his role for him?
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cornutt
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« Reply #35 on: May 06, 2009, 09:59:19 PM »

Dora, you have a constitutional right to not answer that question.   Cheesy
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Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #36 on: May 06, 2009, 11:00:53 PM »

Dora: thank-you for the explanation of the man's role. Now, have you ever been tempted to do his role for him?

First, I had a wonderful partner that totally took care of his job (and me) and was very able to do so. There was never any need for me to cover his jobs.

Second......No, good heavens NO, I am so much more powerful as a female then as a male Wink. I really like the female role and the power that we as ladies have over the men Wink. You see, I can temp a man to do whatever I want to do Tongue, thereby always get my way Tongue at the same time have the man think he got it his way Cheesy. Pretty cool isn't it. Grin So, why on earth would I give up that kind of power over my partner? Wink  Tongue Grin



I sure hope my ex-partner never sees this last part Wink
« Last Edit: May 07, 2009, 07:34:04 AM by Dora-Satya Veda » Logged

"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
elisedance
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« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2009, 05:28:15 AM »

Somehow I don't think there would be any surprises DSV!  After working with you that long he knows 'which way his bread is buttered' as we used to say in england!
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

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Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2009, 07:36:34 AM »

Dora, you have a constitutional right to not answer that question.   Cheesy

Thank cornutt for taking care of me Smiley.

I was thinking of taking "the 5" for a second but then the defence of womenhood came up in me and I had to answer.

Once again thank you for caring
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catsmeow
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« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2009, 09:34:39 PM »

The following is not a hypothetical situation: a couple in gold level international won their way into prechamp. Within a few months the couple separated and have not danced together since. During a conversation with the lady, she mentioned she had backlead her partner during comps and pushed him hard to master posture since that is what makes or breaks us all. I asked why she had done that and she explained that it had worked so why not! Certainly she fooled the audience and the judges because they won. He lost the opportunity to develop his leading and timing. She lost a partner. My point here is that despite the lady's potential power and ability to influence a man's dancing she should not mismanage the effort.
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Rugby
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« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2009, 09:53:06 PM »

She was wrong in not allowing him to develop himself.  She wanted to win and was ready to sacrifice his progress for her needs.  Of course partners should help each other but not at the expense of one of them to satisfy the other.  Sounds like he was just a means to an end rather than a true partner.  I used to "help" my partner fix his angles when coming out of steps if he was over or underturned.  I had to give it up if I wanted him to be able to develop.  In the end I wasn't helping him at all as sometimes there was a reason he had to change it but I would thwart his effort.       
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Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2009, 10:17:06 PM »

The following is not a hypothetical situation: a couple in gold level international won their way into prechamp. Within a few months the couple separated and have not danced together since. During a conversation with the lady, she mentioned she had backlead her partner during comps and pushed him hard to master posture since that is what makes or breaks us all. I asked why she had done that and she explained that it had worked so why not! Certainly she fooled the audience and the judges because they won. He lost the opportunity to develop his leading and timing. She lost a partner. My point here is that despite the lady's potential power and ability to influence a man's dancing she should not mismanage the effort.

There are a big difference between “back leading” a person and “tempting” a person. In my opinion “back leading” means taking away control from the other person, which is wrong, unless the other person agree to allow it. “Tempting” does not mean taking control away from the other person. It allows the other person to decide whether to respond to the “temptation” or not. In other words the person that is being tempted has a choice to go or not to go. I would never suggest that in a partnership the lady “back leads”, because it would no longer be a partnership. I totally agree the lady's power must never be misused and neither must the man's. Each person’s power should be used to help both partners to come out as winners. In my opinion if one person looses, the partnership looses. I want the man to be as strong a man as he can possible be and the same goes for the lady. When both partners are strong at each their own jobs, they both win and therefore the partnership wins.

My partner and I have worked together for more then 20 years. Even though we each live separate lives, we still work together as a team. We would not work together if we had misused the power with each other. We respect each others ability and knowledge and therefore maintain a strong team. You will not be a team if the powers are misused.

With great power comes great responsibility!

Dora-Satya Veda
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Edward Teller
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« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2009, 10:29:13 PM »

I totally agree the lady's power must never be misused and neither must the man's. Each person’s power should be used to help both partners to come out as winners. In my opinion if one person looses, the partnership looses. I want the man to be as strong a man as he can possible be and the same goes for the lady. When both partners are strong at each their own jobs, they both win and therefore the partnership wins.
With great power comes great responsibility!

Dora-Satya Veda
[/quote]

I agree completely.
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Everyone tries to rush up through the syllabus levles and think once they are at the top they have arrived.  What they don't realize is that by doing this it is like skimming through a book, you may get the gist but you will never understand the story.
catsmeow
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« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2009, 10:32:13 PM »

so the man suggests and the lady tempts?
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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2009, 10:48:04 PM »

sounds rather like life...
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
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