Lead-Follow-Lead

[elisedance]

this is the essence of tango why is it here?

because its the essence of all the partner dances - we're just a bit slow on the uptake.  however, AT is clearly the leader-follower-leader for the issue.
teach us...

[elisedance]

Rule of thumb that I've always worked to is that the person going back controls distance and movement, person going forward controls direction. Both people are leading simultaneously.

love it WE.  Except it might not be quite so clean.  For example, when I am going backwards in, say, a natural turn the lead indicates what he wants to do but I actually set the amount of his turn by rotation of my upper body (DSV concurs...).

I am driving distance but its extent - doing it as far as the lead wants - is something I am learning right now - is one of the most fascinating areas I am currently working on.

[Dora-Satya Veda]

hi dsv - then we have to have parts 1 and 2 of the ladies job 4 to put it in context! 

Job 1 of the ladies 4 jobs has 4 parts to it for it to be completed.

The 4 part to job 1 are:

1) Ribcage down
2) Big Feet
3) Turn Shoulders or Turn Hips
4) Open Mind

[Bordertangoman]

"As Barbara describes, the leader's lead SHOULD cause the follower's foot to
move first.  We've found it important to stress that the "leader's follow of
the follow" BEGINS AFTER the follower is "on the way" to her next step, but
ENDS SIMULTANEOUSLY with the follower's arrival at her new step.  He
"overtakes" her on the way to her next step, so that both arrive together.

The difference between this and the "leader first" view is very easy to
teach and to observe.  Everybody watching can see whether the leader's foot
or the follower's foot starts moving first.  If his foot is moving first, by
definition he's not waiting for her follow.  Also, if he starts first,
generally he's unconsciously committed to the size of the step he's going to
take, without really knowing where the follower is going to actually go,
since she hasn't started to move yet.  This tends to damage the connection,
lower the chances of a tango trance, and reduce her to trying to keep up to
his lead, which is now off & running on a track of its own without regard to
her.

In describing this, (to get right-brained again )one image we like to use
is to have the leader imagine that he now has four feet, and he has to move
the foot attached to the follower's leg first, but that both moving feet
(his & hers) have to "get there on the beat."

Another perspective:
Because the human eye is drawn unconsciously to movement, if the leader's
feet start moving first in any step, those watching will find their
attention drawn away from the follower's beautiful legs,
skirt/dress/tights/stockings, shoes & feet, and focusing instead on the
(usually far less attractive) leader's trousers & shoes. "

http://www.tango-l.com/archives/Tango-L/msg02472.html

[dream a little dream]

hi dsv - then we have to have parts 1 and 2 of the ladies job 4 to put it in context! 

Job 1 of the ladies 4 jobs has 4 parts to it for it to be completed.

The 4 part to job 1 are:

1) Ribcage down
2) Big Feet
3) Turn Shoulders or Turn Hips
4) Open Mind

What does "big feet" mean? 

[elisedance]

I guess stability...

[elisedance]

hi dsv - then we have to have parts 1 and 2 of the ladies job 4 to put it in context! 

Job 1 of the ladies 4 jobs has 4 parts to it for it to be completed.

The 4 part to job 1 are:

1) Ribcage down
2) Big Feet
3) Turn Shoulders or Turn Hips
4) Open Mind

thanks - this is like a large puzzle - but one learns it better in bite sized pieces...

[waltzelf]

Rule of thumb that I've always worked to is that the person going back controls distance and movement, person going forward controls direction. Both people are leading simultaneously.

love it WE.  Except it might not be quite so clean.  For example, when I am going backwards in, say, a natural turn the lead indicates what he wants to do but I actually set the amount of his turn by rotation of my upper body (DSV concurs...).

I am driving distance but its extent - doing it as far as the lead wants - is something I am learning right now - is one of the most fascinating areas I am currently working on.

This is true, and there are more exceptions to the "base rule" than I care to think about. But, it's a good "rule" for getting into the mindset that the man isn't the all-controlling force on the dance floor, and that the lady should be more proactive than just following.

[elisedance]

What I just learned is how the lead steps on the accelerator pedal when he is going forward.  he does so by expanding the frame - it only works if I know how to react to this which is by opening so that the weight of my head goes backwards - I then swing my legs back to take a step.  We call it jumping..... when I get that sensation I just take off - but its done without changing my spine/head alignment and without actually falling backwards.  the relationship between our bodies does not change.

[Dora-Satya Veda]

hi dsv - then we have to have parts 1 and 2 of the ladies job 4 to put it in context! 

Job 1 of the ladies 4 jobs has 4 parts to it for it to be completed.

The 4 part to job 1 are:

1) Ribcage down
2) Big Feet
3) Turn Shoulders or Turn Hips
4) Open Mind

thanks - this is like a large puzzle - but one learns it better in bite sized pieces...

As I have said before there are 20 basic rules in the "Body School of Thought" over 400 on the 3rd level and over 8000 on the 6th level. It is like one big puzzle. Learning them all will for sure take a life time, which is why my teacher said for his students to work from a higher potential to a lower potential and not the other way around. He said that most people don’t have a lifetime to spend learning it as they will only know it all when they are no longer able to dance.

[Dora-Satya Veda]

What does "big feet" mean? 

You have to grow your feet or you have to have big feet. 


No, sorry I couldn't help it.

Actually I remember one teacher in England saying that only dancers with big feet would become great dancers. Well, I have seen great dancers that had small feet relative to their body

It means; to use the standing foot so long that the man has the ability to choose when he wants to move, thereby having the freedom to choose the timing that he wants to use.

[dream a little dream]

I already have the big feet....I guess I am going to be an excellent dancer!

Seriously, though, that makes a lot of sense!

[elisedance]

its hard to have big feet when you are in the middle of a QS run though...

[Dora-Satya Veda]

its hard to have big feet when you are in the middle of a QS run though...

Yes, there is no time for a coffee or tea break between the lady's jobs.

[Dora-Satya Veda]

hardly one for a sip of water!

You can always have a sip of water afterwards

You are right…we ladies work physically all the time. The man gets a physical break as he is being “pull” along or as my partner would say it “hanging on”. I have found that ladies are very capable of working all the time while making it look easy and smooth. I have also found that most ladies really like do the ladies jobs. They have more control then they realize at first and they discover that the partnership would not really be, if they were not there to do their jobs. Some of my lady students actually call “the jobs of the lady” or “the lady’s 4 jobs” for the second gender revolution. They discover the true power of the female and they like it.