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Author Topic: Posture, Positioning and Poise  (Read 3042 times)
ahowlett1
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 50


« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2009, 10:23:46 PM »

Posture simply describes the alignment of the body. Good, Bad or in-different.
Position refers to the position of the lady in reference to the man.
Poise refers to the position of the body in relation to the feet.
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SwingWaltz
Gold Star
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Posts: 5772


« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2009, 10:41:12 PM »

What about differences in APPEARED poise(?) and ACTUAL poise?
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TangoDancer
Open Bronze
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Posts: 736



« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2009, 04:28:13 AM »

Posture simply describes the alignment of the body. Good, Bad or in-different.
Position refers to the position of the lady in reference to the man.
Poise refers to the position of the body in relation to the feet.
Ha.... Smiley...hope you do not feel like we are bumping heads today, but this is just backwards (perhaps a typo).......

Posture: the 'position' of the parts of the body over its base (when correct it is in an upright alignment on the spine and over the insteps)
Position: ahowlett is correct
Poise: the natural and unaltered 'balance' (alignment) acheived by proper posture and position.

Incidentally, good tips Waltzelf. I would only add that often it is taught to roll the shoulders up and back; squeezing the shoulder blades; tightening the back. Though this is attainable for beginners, another way that I have found to be ultimately better is to stress that when one rolls the shoulders they should stop at the sides and be perfectly relaxed. The look/feel that they are after is from lifting the obliques.  Smiley Finding the things is the hardest part.
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
ahowlett1
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 50


« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2009, 08:38:05 PM »

Hi Tangodancer... Fortunately or unfortunately, I am correct. Check your books, or your physio.
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ahowlett1
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 50


« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2009, 08:39:26 PM »

Hi Swing Waltz... Poise is poise. It is a description of the body in relation to the feet. One cannot have actual or appeared poise. It just is.
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TangoDancer
Open Bronze
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Posts: 736



« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2009, 12:00:35 AM »

Hi Tangodancer... Fortunately or unfortunately, I am correct. Check your books, or your physio.

 Smiley I won't argue semantics. I know what you mean; I respect your posts. To my defense, though, I will say that I am a studied kinesiologist, and books don't dance.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2009, 12:05:49 AM by TangoDancer » Logged

The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
Vagabond
Intermediate Silver
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Posts: 1333


~ Mai Più Senza! ~


« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2009, 08:40:12 PM »

Hi Tangodancer... Fortunately or unfortunately, I am correct. Check your books, or your physio.

 Smiley I won't argue semantics. I know what you mean; I respect your posts. To my defense, though, I will say that I am a studied kinesiologist, and books don't dance.
As a scientist I would like to add that books, at times, tell a story set for a specific era/opinion. it is mankinds journey to change perceptions and grow accordingly.
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Dancing with the feet is one thing, but dancing with the heart is another.
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
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Posts: 34983


ee


« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2009, 02:10:06 AM »

Nicely put V...

I wonder if we have a difference between schools of thought?  To my (untrained in this field) mind I resonate better with TDs definitions.
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
pruthe
Bronze
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Posts: 274



« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2009, 08:15:25 AM »

Definition from DVIDA syllabus manuals:

"Poise - The correct positioning of body weight in relation to the feet. It can also refer to the general appearance of the dancer as a whole. Each dance has its own proper poise."

Sounds like both TD and AH are right.
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"It's not what you do, but how you do it."

"The Truth in Ballroom Dance is found in the Basic steps."

A.S.
Vagabond
Intermediate Silver
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Posts: 1333


~ Mai Più Senza! ~


« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2009, 08:58:28 AM »

Okay lets bring out he big guns - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/poise

- noun 1. a state of balance or equilibrium, as from equality or equal distribution of weight; equipoise.
2. a dignified, self-confident manner or bearing; composure; self-possession: to show poise in company. 
3. steadiness; stability: intellectual poise. 
4. suspense or wavering, as between rest and motion or two phases of motion: the poise of the tides. 
5. the way of being poised, held, or carried.
6. the state or position of hovering: the poise of a bird in the air. 

–verb (used with object)
7. to adjust, hold, or carry in equilibrium; balance evenly.
8. to hold supported or raised, as in position for casting, using, etc.: to poise a spear. 
9. to hold or carry in a particular manner: She walked, carefully poising a water jug on her head. 
10. Obsolete. to weigh.

–verb (used without object)
11. to rest in equilibrium; be balanced.
12. to hover, as a bird in the air.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
1350–1400; (n.) ME pois(e) weight < OF (F poids) < LL p?nsum, n. use of neut. ptp. of L pendere to weigh; (v.) ME poisen to weigh < OF poiser, var., based on tonic s., of peser < L p?ns?re, freq. of pendere


Synonyms:
2. self-assurance; polish, grace, refinement.
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Dancing with the feet is one thing, but dancing with the heart is another.
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
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Posts: 34983


ee


« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2009, 05:29:10 PM »

big guns - but are they pointing in the right direction?
I mean surely there is a definition for ballroom?
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Vagabond
Intermediate Silver
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Posts: 1333


~ Mai Più Senza! ~


« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2009, 06:53:39 PM »

big guns - but are they pointing in the right direction?
I mean surely there is a definition for ballroom?
I think I was trying to say that we have to take a look at the origins of the word. In most languages we tend to use words that have, in its original form, a slightly different meaning but because it is close enough to what we want, we use it. We try to fit a word into our own vocabulary, but it really doesn't have the same clout as in the original context.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 06:55:58 PM by Vagabond » Logged

Dancing with the feet is one thing, but dancing with the heart is another.
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
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Posts: 34983


ee


« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2009, 06:55:32 PM »

Actually, that reall is the best place to start, V.
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Vagabond
Intermediate Silver
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Posts: 1333


~ Mai Più Senza! ~


« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2009, 06:58:30 PM »

Actually, that reall is the best place to start, V.
It helps if you are multilingual, I often have to think before I write in Dutch, German going to English with a hint of French
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Dancing with the feet is one thing, but dancing with the heart is another.
Vagabond
Intermediate Silver
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Posts: 1333


~ Mai Più Senza! ~


« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2009, 03:59:56 AM »

Found this really interesting article on dancesport.co.uk, I hope you enjoy it;

3 Ps. What more suitable time to mention this important subject of Posture, Poise and Presentation. Today starts, the Michigan dance Challenge Competition arranged by Mr. Mark Brock. So we spent an hour with Kathryn Schaffer who is the US Open Standard Champion from her days with Victor Verasset. As every other coach will say, even if you get one pointer from one lesson and continue to dwell on it and put it to work in your daily dancing, you have accomplished a lot. So, for this session it was the three Ps.

1. Posture: The dictionary definition of Posture is "the way of holding the Body". To a dancer, that does not tell much. So for dancing purposes, the Body can be divided into 4 parts. The Head, the Upper Torso including the Shoulders and Chest, the Lower Torso or the Hips and then the Legs and Feet or you might call it the Base. So Posture then is how we stack up these four elements one above the other. If you stand against a wall and line up the back of your head, the back of your shoulders, the back of your hips and the back of your heels against the wall, you have attained a good posture.

2. Poise: I could not find a good definition for the 'Poise'. One dictionary defined it as "mental composure and good balance". Therefore I will try my own. Poise, in dancing, can be defined as follows. "It is the distribution of weight consistent with the dance position at a particular time maintaining proper balance and shape". So Lady has her own poise and usually she is poised back from waist up and Man his own, more or less neutral. Some times we have more weight in our heels and then sometimes more in the toes. So Poise is constantly changing according to the situation. For example the poise is different in Promenade Position (PP) as compared to what it is in Closed Position. Poise cannot be isolated from Posture and it is therefore important that Posture, Poise and Balance should be maintained in proper relationship to execute good Presentation.

3. Presentation: So in addition to the above, there is more to "Presentation". Of course here comes the Personality, the Dress and Costume, Grooming and the interpersonal relationship of the dancing couple. These are only a few of the attributes that I can think of. One thing I specifically recall how some ladies tend to gaze in the sky as if they are somewhere in the universe than the dance floor. With the same token some men tend to simulate the breathing and mouth expressions of champions which is above their level. I think being natural and presenting your own best seems to be the answer.

Walking on to the Deck area: Many judges including Katherine will tell you that you can almost tell who is the winner by the way you walk on to the dance floor. Actually then it may be said "how the couple present themselves". To be more precise how the Man presents her "Lady" to the audience.

So much for today. At the end I like to say, forget about the competition, think about this in your everyday dancing. Besides, you can put it to work in your daily life when you are driving, working or doing any thing else. For me, "Easier said than done".

Good Luck and best wishes, Max.
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Dancing with the feet is one thing, but dancing with the heart is another.
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