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| | | |-+  What Makes Coaching Worthwhile?
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Author Topic: What Makes Coaching Worthwhile?  (Read 1500 times)
phoenix13
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« on: June 22, 2013, 06:35:52 AM »

Not your regular everyday dance pro (I think we already have a topic for that; if not, I will start one.)

I mean the outside coach -- the guy or gal who comes to visit your studio only every so often.The one who costs more. The one who teaches you and your teacher at the same time.


In your experience, is that periodic coaching worth the added expense?  Why or why not?What do you use coaching for?  Technique?  Choreography?  Dance theory?  How do you make the most of coaching time?  How often do you seek dance coaching?

IOW. Please discuss.  Wink
« Last Edit: June 22, 2013, 08:23:18 AM by phoenix13 » Logged

Dona nobis pacem.
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« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2013, 09:22:51 AM »

We have regular coaches and In dont mind, as it is always good to hear another voice as sometimes you dont hear your coaches voice anymore. They may have a specialty area and I think that you can never have too much information, but I will stop at the price of the lessons. Luca Baricci is coming to town  and will be charging $225 per lesson and i wont do that.
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phoenix13
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« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2013, 10:40:26 AM »

How does it work with am/am couples?  Does your regular coach attend the lesson as well as the visiting coach?
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elisedance
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« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2013, 02:11:19 PM »

How does it work with am/am couples?  Does your regular coach attend the lesson as well as the visiting coach?
Nope.  I have never heard of that.  THe AM/AM world is very different - its understood that you are an independent entity and (with the higher teachers) that you will go where you need to for training.  After all, they do too. 

That is not the same for pro-am.  This is when it can get 'draining the bucket'.  Pro brings in a coach and then asks you to take a training session.  For that you pay the cost of the coach of course and then you pay the cost of a lesson with your pro-partner.  There are real benefits to the arrangement since the outside coach can point out weaknesses in your partnership (although all weaknesses are, of course, attributed to the 'student'; thats sort of an unwritten rule, even if its untrue).  Not only that but your pro-partner is also learning from the outside coach - something you are now paying for.

I think it can be made to work though.  Since you can't learn from both at one time I think the cost for your pro-partner should be reduced - basically, just for their time, not the same as a lesson.  As it stands a one hour lesson could cost ~$2-300 - and thats not with a truly famous coach.

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phoenix13
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« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2013, 03:24:30 PM »

Yep.  It adds up, although I have heard of many pros who discount such coaching sessions and some who don't charge at all.

Of course, I can remember one coaching session I took that was worth every penny of the double charge. It was the one where  I heard the visiting coach say to my pro in an undertone, "The student should never be allowed to advance beyond the teacher."

I started looking for a new pro the next day.
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elisedance
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« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2013, 05:34:26 AM »

Of course, I can remember one coaching session I took that was worth every penny of the double charge. It was the one where  I heard the visiting coach say to my pro in an undertone, "The student should never be allowed to advance beyond the teacher."
Shocked Shocked

Now that should have also gone in the 'best compliments' topic!!  I'm not quite sure what he meant though - obviously he was commenting on your abilities - but did he mean that the teacher should have held you back or that the teacher should be working on his own skills to have something to teach...
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phoenix13
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« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2013, 08:20:29 AM »

The latter, I believe.  Or at least that was my understanding at the time.
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elisedance
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« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2013, 04:59:51 PM »

The latter, I believe.  Or at least that was my understanding at the time.
I wonder if he did after you left...

I've seen pro-am competitors where the am (student) was a far better dancer than the pro (teacher) Undecided
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
phoenix13
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« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2013, 05:26:08 PM »

So have I.  I think the rationale is that the small number of goal-oriented students doesn't justify the added effort of improving their own dancing.

Not a bad point, actually, when you consider how many students drop out at social, bronze or silver at the most.  (Actually, that wouldn't be a bad topic, if we had more active dance teachers: Do dance teachers need to learn gold, open and above if they're rarely going to be called upon to teach it?)
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elisedance
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« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2013, 09:02:51 PM »

Good question - but how many who don't would actually admit it.  And can one really learn bronze from a teacher that only knows bronze?  I find that near useless if they don't know what the purpose of it is...
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
phoenix13
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« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2013, 11:23:49 PM »

Absolutely.  The teacher needs to know enough to be able to put concepts into context for her/his students.

I'll keep this topic on the back burner, in case we get a few active dance teachers.  I would love to have the opinions of teachers, advanced students  and intermediate students.  Would be an interesting conversation. Cool
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elisedance
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« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2013, 05:59:08 AM »

Absolutely.  The teacher needs to know enough to be able to put concepts into context for her/his students.

I'll keep this topic on the back burner, in case we get a few active dance teachers.  I would love to have the opinions of teachers, advanced students  and intermediate students.  Would be an interesting conversation. Cool
Sigh...  were are they now...
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

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ttd
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« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2013, 11:10:29 PM »

Not your regular everyday dance pro (I think we already have a topic for that; if not, I will start one.)

I mean the outside coach -- the guy or gal who comes to visit your studio only every so often.The one who costs more. The one who teaches you and your teacher at the same time.


In your experience, is that periodic coaching worth the added expense?  Why or why not?What do you use coaching for?  Technique?  Choreography?  Dance theory?  How do you make the most of coaching time?  How often do you seek dance coaching?

IOW. Please discuss.  Wink


IME, it was worth the added expense. Just to get an outside perspective, a third-person look by someone experienced, if you will. Because some problems can't be identified from within the partnership. And I think it gets more important at higher levels.

Obviously, there is a point when it gets too expensive (I probably would decline to work with someone who charges $200 or more), but in our neck of woods, we never had a coach who charged more than $130.
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elisedance
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« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2013, 11:37:35 PM »

Do you think your pro-partner benefits from the outside coaching?  If so should he reduce his billing rate?  Seems to me that to charge both is really partially double-dipping since only one can teach at a time!

I realize the pro does need some payment for their time but shouldn't that be reduced rate?
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
ttd
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« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2013, 11:16:28 AM »

Do you think your pro-partner benefits from the outside coaching?  If so should he reduce his billing rate?  Seems to me that to charge both is really partially double-dipping since only one can teach at a time!

I realize the pro does need some payment for their time but shouldn't that be reduced rate?
Of course, he benefits. And not only he, his other students benefit, too. And conversely, I benefit every time his other students take coaching. Because he can take the information he received on such a lesson, analyze it, and determine what applies to his other students' dancing.

And I don't think someone should be reducing their hourly rate or taking a smaller salary just because they will learn new information they can apply elsewhere. I certainly wouldn't.
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