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Author Topic: What makes dance dance?  (Read 640 times)
phoenix13
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« on: June 13, 2013, 04:35:52 PM »

I was on another dance discussion site today and came across the question of whether stripping is dance.   Its a pretty liberal group over there,so the consensus turned out to be yes.  But one of the members, a dance teacher, added in some other dimensions that, in his mind, would turn just standing around, for example,or just walking,into actual dancing and that might keep some sorts of stripping from being characterized as dance in his mind.   Don't want to squelch the discussion here or copy the discussion that was had over there, so  I won't tell you what was said.

But I will ask a question.

To you, what is it that makes dancing dancing -- that transforms some ordinary non-dance action, such as walking,riding in a wheelchair, taking off ones clothes, bending ones knees, into actual dancing?  How do you draw the line?  Or do you not draw the line?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 04:39:28 PM by phoenix13 » Logged

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elisedance
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« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2013, 07:43:07 PM »

interesting question - and I suspect each person will have thier own definition that will vary from 'move your body' to 'learn a formal dance style' Smiley  To me dance is 'body movement dedicated to expression'.  there, thats about as general as I can make it.  I thought about adding music - but one can dance without music, even without music in your mind...
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phoenix13
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« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2013, 08:09:59 PM »

Yes. Crazy as I know I sound, I asked the question but don't know my own answer yet. I think the answer is likely different for each of us.

What popped into my mind was those inevitable scenes at parties, where your friends  turn on the music and show you their precious firstborn eighteen month old, bending his his knees and bopping his diapered butt up and down to the music.  They always say, "Look!  He's dancing!!"   But, if you were to do the same thing, you would definitely not be considered to be dancing.

Gotta think about this some more.  I'd love to hear what others think as well.
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QPO
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« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2013, 11:00:16 PM »

ell recently we had a dance show start (that got removed after a few weeks). one of our dance couples (latin) was up against a  guy that was inside a rotating ring, which obviously was considered dance, and won!. after that I did not watch that show any more, dance definition is quite broad: But a guy rolling around in a ring is not dance.

Definition at Wikipedia


Dance is a type of art that generally involves movement of the body, often rhythmic and to music. It is performed in many cultures as a form of emotional expression, social interaction, or exercise, in a spiritual or performance setting, and is sometimes used to express ideas or tell a story. Dance may also be regarded as a form of nonverbal communication between humans or other animals, as in bee dances and behaviour patterns such as a mating dances.


Definitions of what constitutes dance can depend on social and cultural norms and aesthetic, artistic and moral sensibilities. Definitions may range from functional movement (such as folk dance) to virtuoso techniques such as ballet. Martial arts kata are often compared to dances, and sports such as gymnastics, figure skating and synchronized swimming are generally thought to incorporate dance.

There are many styles and genres of dance. African dance is interpretative. Ballet, ballroom and tango are classical dance styles. Square dance and electric slide are forms of step dance, and breakdancing is a type of street dance. Dance can be participatory, social, or performed for an audience. It can also be ceremonial, competitive or erotic. Dance movements may be without significance in themselves, as in ballet or European folk dance, or have a gestural vocabulary or symbolic meaning as in some Asian dances.

Choreography is the art of creating dances. The person who creates (i.e., choreographs) a dance is known as the choreographer.
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phoenix13
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« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2013, 11:08:37 PM »

ell recently we had a dance show start (that got removed after a few weeks). one of our dance couples (latin) was up against a  guy that was inside a rotating ring, which obviously was considered dance, and won!. after that I did not watch that show any more, dance definition is quite broad: But a guy rolling around in a ring is not dance.



That is hilarious!!   I have to say I agree. Smiley

But I bet that a dancer's definition would be different to a non-dancer's,which might explain the TV show result.
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elisedance
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« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2013, 08:47:07 PM »

I don't quite understand Q - could you describe the 'rotating ring' a bit more.  Was he inside something like a hamster treadmill Cheesy
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millitiz
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« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2013, 09:00:21 AM »

That is a very good question. I was thinking about it for quite awhile, but for a different reason.

I was thinking about evolution of dancing, pushing dancing further. At what point is it too much? At what point do we say that, for example, the ballroom dancing that these couples are doing is no longer ballroom?

In order to answer the question, we have to answer another question: what is dancing? What is ballroom dancing? What are the essences defining ballroom dancing?

And no, I don't have any answer Grin.

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elisedance
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« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2013, 09:04:36 AM »

I was thinking about evolution of dancing, pushing dancing further. At what point is it too much? At what point do we say that, for example, the ballroom dancing that these couples are doing is no longer ballroom?
[mZ - I was going to split this to start a new topic but then your comments to this one would disappear.
Can you start a topic on this - this board would be fine (I may move it).  I think its a great question that we should discuss...]
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millitiz
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« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2013, 10:25:36 AM »

[mZ - I was going to split this to start a new topic but then your comments to this one would disappear.
Can you start a topic on this - this board would be fine (I may move it).  I think its a great question that we should discuss...]

But these two questions are interrelated. So, while it is nice to have a separate topics, we might go back to this topic again. So I am not sure if breaking them to two is...necessary.
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phoenix13
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« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2013, 10:37:33 AM »

Let me ponder your questions, militiz.  I'll be back. Smiley
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phoenix13
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« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2013, 11:20:57 AM »

Okay. I'm back. Still don't have any answers, though.  Grin

I think we have three separate questions going here.  whether they need separate threads or not, I don't know. But,since starting threads is a lot of work and can be a colossal pain (and they may never get any answers,)  let's just start talking and see where we end up.   Cool Smiley

Question 1: What is the essence of ballroom dance?  (I see this question as what is it that makes ballroom dance ballroom as distinct from any other dance genre?  Great question! Smiley  )

Question 2: How far can today's ballroom dancers push the envelop (with shaping, styling, interpretation, etc) before they are no longer doing ballroom but have now developed a new dance genre altogether?    (Also a great question and one that I have thought about in the context of West Coast Swing very often. Cool  )

Question 3: What is the element that transforms everyday movement into dance?

The last one is what I was getting at, although I will think about and respond to all three, when I feel I have something intelligent to say. Cool  I was going after something much more basic.  To give a idea, I'll quote the dance teacher whose offhand comment made me think of this topic.

Quote from: Damon Stone in Dancers Forum on FB
Exotic dancing is definitely dancing. Walking around a stage and taking your clothes off, not so much. If I stand and shift weight while music is playing it may or may not be dancing, depends on if there is interpretation of the music in my movement. If the answer is yes then it is dancing, as is pretty much anything else. If I am moving with no interpretation of the music, it is not affecting me at all in my movement choices and quality, then no.

To him, according to this comment, what makes dance dance is musical interpretation. That's what makes wheelchair dancing, dancing.  Or an eighteen month old diapered butt dancing.Or stripping dancing. To him.  How about to you?

« Last Edit: June 16, 2013, 11:22:48 AM by phoenix13 » Logged

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elisedance
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« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2013, 02:06:30 PM »

[mZ - I was going to split this to start a new topic but then your comments to this one would disappear.
Can you start a topic on this - this board would be fine (I may move it).  I think its a great question that we should discuss...]

But these two questions are interrelated. So, while it is nice to have a separate topics, we might go back to this topic again. So I am not sure if breaking them to two is...necessary.

we may well - but that doesn't matter.  The point is that the evolutoin of ballroom is a separate question in its own right - and its central to what PDO is about so I'd very much like a topic on it...  but if you don't want to I'll set P13 loose.... Grin Grin
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phoenix13
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« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2013, 03:45:58 PM »

No need. you already started one last month.    Smiley  Close enough to question 2, unless you're getting at something else.   Cool


http://partnerdanceonline.com/index.php?topic=2271.0
« Last Edit: June 16, 2013, 03:49:19 PM by phoenix13 » Logged

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phoenix13
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« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2013, 04:07:16 PM »

And BOT.

I like where Damon is going.  Dance is movement with the intention of musical interpretation.  That works for me, except I think it may be incomplete. I have to wonder. Is it possible to dance without intending to? 
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elisedance
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« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2013, 05:47:43 PM »

No need. you already started one last month.    Smiley  Close enough to question 2, unless you're getting at something else.   Cool


http://partnerdanceonline.com/index.php?topic=2271.0
good catch - you started it, you just didn't know it at the time Wink Smiley
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