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| | | |-+  How do you move (swing dances)?
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Author Topic: How do you move (swing dances)?  (Read 9961 times)
emeralddancer
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Nottingham, MD (by way of NJ)


« Reply #90 on: November 05, 2009, 01:29:35 PM »

what comes first, how to do the step or how to lead a step? if I learn to lead first,what am I leading? leading, I think, takes a great deal of time to do properly and improves with practice and acquired insight. can someone help  because my post is confusing me!

Kinda the question

what came first the chicken or the egg eh?

I would think both simultaneously? If taught the step first would one not also teach proper lead of that same step at the same time?
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It is more important who they are as people and only then is it important who they are as dancers.~Marcia Haydee
elisedance
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ee


« Reply #91 on: November 05, 2009, 01:57:24 PM »

depends - I mean a savoury egg custard would be an appertizer whereas an egg flan would be a dessert Roll Eyes
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elisedance
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« Reply #92 on: November 05, 2009, 03:02:05 PM »

No I am not saying there must be another way (if the above post is addressed to me)
Oh sorry.  You asked to help you understand.  Here's my 2-cents: dancing, the kind you see the top professionals do, I've learned, is an illusion.  They make it look easy only because it really is easy.  It's the viewer who makes it look complicated.  Very similar to magic.  What the magician is actually doing is a lot less complicated, less stressful and less physical than actually sawing his assistant in half and then putting her back together again.  However, there's money, status, and a lot of other factors involved.  So it behooves them to make it seem as complicated as possible so that only those that they choose may enter the top ranks.  A few generations of this and you have teachers who sincerely believe it's very complicated.  It has gotten to the point where in the U.S. it's more the norm than the exception to find a teacher who believes in the complexity. 

One thing you'll note here about PDO is that the top pros on here got their information first hand from the original gurus, and they are so magnanimous with this information that they are still pushing the simplicity of the art.  They are not trying to make themselves feel more superior by telling everyone that what they're doing is a hybrid between rocket science and brain surgery (rocket surgery!).  To me, that's one of the biggest draws of PDO.  People aren't here to in insinuate or assert their superiority.  They're here to tell as many people as they can how easy it all is, and they're here to help people see past the illusion.  I got found myself on this board when I told myself, "there has to be a better way".  There has to be a reason 6-yr olds who have been on this earth for a shorter amount of time than I've been dancing could beat me at any given day at any competition with one leg tied behind their back.  I had to know what the secret was.  If a 6-yr old can make it look easy, then maybe it was I who was making it complicated.     

I'm not sure if I am on the same track any more - but I've had changes in my dancing over the last couple of weeks that has decidedly made it much easier.  These centre (oops, better watch that word) round allowing my legs to move on their own so that my weight is always over them - the worst thing I've ever been taught in ballroom is to take a step and put my weight on it.  that is so completely back-asseted as to make me want to go and demand all those teaching dollars back....
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
pruthe
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« Reply #93 on: November 05, 2009, 04:02:16 PM »

I think DSV's signature line says a lot:

"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler."

Hang in there CM. You're probably dancing with more ease than I am. Gotta keep plugging away and the wisdom eventually comes. :-)
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"It's not what you do, but how you do it."

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A.S.
cornutt
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« Reply #94 on: November 05, 2009, 04:29:48 PM »

Here's my 2-cents: dancing, the kind you see the top professionals do, I've learned, is an illusion.  They make it look easy only because it really is easy.  It's the viewer who makes it look complicated.  Very similar to magic.  

Interesting... It occurs to me in reading this, though, that there may be a difference -- in stage magic, the creation of the illusion is intentional, an essential part of the performance.  Does dance intentionally set out to create illusions for the audience?  And if so, is it essential to the performance?

It deserves its own topic, so I'll start one.
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TangoDancer
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« Reply #95 on: November 08, 2009, 05:27:00 AM »

I would think both simultaneously? If taught the step first would one not also teach proper lead of that same step at the same time?

We have touched on these principles before when we were discussing teaching from the inside out rather than the outside in. This is to say to take one's natural movement and create proper dance technique, rather than to take the tech from a book, and conform, or confine, one's movement to it. What one should learn first is the movement including the proper body positioning, alignment, balance, etc w/i that movement. Once this is achieved, it is often astonishing that, especially in the beginning stages, no "lead" is required, as the follow will be responsive to these attributes, and will follow by a natural necessity.
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
elisedance
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ee


« Reply #96 on: November 08, 2009, 08:58:00 AM »

I would think both simultaneously? If taught the step first would one not also teach proper lead of that same step at the same time?

We have touched on these principles before when we were discussing teaching from the inside out rather than the outside in. This is to say to take one's natural movement and create proper dance technique, rather than to take the tech from a book, and conform, or confine, one's movement to it. What one should learn first is the movement including the proper body positioning, alignment, balance, etc w/i that movement. Once this is achieved, it is often astonishing that, especially in the beginning stages, no "lead" is required, as the follow will be responsive to these attributes, and will follow by a natural necessity.
Whats particularly ironic and maybe sad is that I think your last sentence is exactly what most ballroom dancers aspire (and perspire) to.  If one was suspiscious one could easily conclude that there is a giant dance teachers conspiracy out there.
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #97 on: November 08, 2009, 10:38:18 AM »

We have touched on these principles before when we were discussing teaching from the inside out rather than the outside in. 

I agree that we have touched on this subject before.

Once this is achieved, it is often astonishing that, especially in the beginning stages, no "lead" is required, as the follow will be responsive to these attributes, and will follow by a natural necessity.

Once you get that then you have what is called "weightless lead" or "weightlessness" in the Body School. You are leading by thought rather then the physical action.

DSV
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"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
samina
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« Reply #98 on: November 08, 2009, 10:48:49 AM »


Once you get that then you have what is called "weightless lead" or "weightlessness" in the Body School. You are leading by thought rather then the physical action.

DSV
was bill irvine a body school instructor? i have worked with one coach (irvine was his primary mentor) who helped me experience a completely weightless lead and follow for the first time. that kind of non-resistance lead & follow seems to be at the center of his own teaching. am wondering if it comes from the body school perspective...
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Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #99 on: November 08, 2009, 10:51:08 AM »

Whats particularly ironic and maybe sad is that I think your last sentence is exactly what most ballroom dancers aspire (and perspire) to.  If one was suspiscious one could easily conclude that there is a giant dance teachers conspiracy out there.

It is considered a great secret how to accomplice that way of dancing.

There are very few dancers that get to the point of their dancing where they are being able to do it physically (or lead by thought) and even less dancers that are able to teach it to students.

So is there a conspiracy out there.....in a way, yes. Because so few are able to do it and so few are able to teach it, many of the teachers that are able to teach it to students, see it as a form of job security. This makes most of those teachers that knows only teach the insights to students that are loyal to them. Students that run around having lessons with every teacher under the sun will have a hard time getting the insights.

I was lucky that I had a couple of teachers that knew the insights and that took my partner and I under their wing. If it had not been for them then I would never have found or learned any of the insights.

DSV

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"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
Dora-Satya Veda
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Posts: 6871


« Reply #100 on: November 08, 2009, 10:53:44 AM »


Once you get that then you have what is called "weightless lead" or "weightlessness" in the Body School. You are leading by thought rather then the physical action.

DSV
was bill irvine a body school instructor? i have worked with one coach (irvine was his primary mentor) who helped me experience a completely weightless lead and follow for the first time. that kind of non-resistance lead & follow seems to be at the center of his own teaching. am wondering if it comes from the body school perspective...

Look in the thread "schools of thought". I think I saw the answer there.
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"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
Dora-Satya Veda
Gold Star
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Posts: 6871


« Reply #101 on: November 08, 2009, 11:09:09 AM »

Interesting... It occurs to me in reading this, though, that there may be a difference -- in stage magic, the creation of the illusion is intentional, an essential part of the performance.  Does dance intentionally set out to create illusions for the audience?  And if so, is it essential to the performance?


All I can say is .......Yes and Yes

DSV
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"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
samina
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« Reply #102 on: November 08, 2009, 01:15:41 PM »

thank you, dora!
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TangoDancer
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Posts: 736



« Reply #103 on: November 09, 2009, 04:19:05 AM »

As posted in another thread; it is all an illusion, even from the most basic of the walk.
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
TangoDancer
Open Bronze
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Posts: 736



« Reply #104 on: November 09, 2009, 04:22:28 AM »

I was lucky that I had a couple of teachers that knew the insights and that took my partner and I under their wing. If it had not been for them then I would never have found or learned any of the insights  DSV

Dear God! Ditto that!
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
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