How do you move (swing dances)?

[Dora-Satya Veda]

I have the most incredible teacher that has helped me to see the simplicity of dancing.  It is really quite ironic that it is so simple, yet the simplicity comes from understanding the complexity, she always says.  I think another thing that plagues a couple is that they try to focus on too many things at one time. Learning comes in stages. It is helpful to have a teacher that doesn't cram a hundred items in one lesson.  That's the beauty of my teacher.  She gives an idea, a picture and a feeling on ONE thing.

Sarosh

That sounds like you are talking about my dance mother and dance father. That was exactly what they say/said.

[elisedance]

I'm going to be a bit of a devils adovcate here.  Dancing may be as simple as walking but you have to learn to stand first.  The problem is that most of us don't stand in such a way as to make dancing as simple as walking.

By stand I mean to have your body in such a position that walking witha partner is possible.  The reason I bring this up is that in recent lessons I have learned body positioning issues that continue to transform how I dance with my pro.  These can not be dismissed as 'just walk'.  I am also thinking of those who are reading this topic who must be wondering if its so simple, why can't I dance perfectly by just walking? 

Ballet dancers spend many years training their bodies to get superb control over every muscle, poise, ballance and coordinated movement.  While ballroom is not as extreme (and of course there are elements that are very different) there are yet things to train the body that make dancing with a partner easier and more beautiful. 

[Dora-Satya Veda]

I'm going to be a bit of a devils adovcate here.  Dancing may be as simple as walking but you have to learn to stand first.  The problem is that most of us don't stand in such a way as to make dancing as simple as walking.

By stand I mean to have your body in such a position that walking witha partner is possible.  The reason I bring this up is that in recent lessons I have learned body positioning issues that continue to transform how I dance with my pro.  These can not be dismissed as 'just walk'.  I am also thinking of those who are reading this topic who must be wondering if its so simple, why can't I dance perfectly by just walking? 

It might be an idea to go grocery shopping and use a cart for the groceries . Study what you do while walking with the cart . Somehow most people stand and walk with great posture when doing that (unless you do what my brother used to do by using the cart to hang on and wheel around the store ). It always amazes me how well people seem to be able to do that with no problem and they get a partner in front of them and they totally freak out .

Dora-Satya Veda

[Some guy]

Elise, you have a point.  One of the challenges (and what makes things interesting) is trying to figure out what to "free up" when we dance so that it feels like walking.  I could list out 100 things that need to be freed up but DSV's example of a grocery cart does all that and then some with one single thing to think about.  Now think, grocery cart and swing set.   

[Dora-Satya Veda]

Now think, grocery cart and swing set.   

Yeeehhh I love it. We are learning like children and are just playing. Going shopping with a grocery cart and then go to the park and get on the swing set! Just love it.

[elisedance]

my image is swinging on a swing set while hanging onto a grocery cart.
very elegante....

[emeralddancer]

my image is swinging on a swing set while hanging onto a grocery cart.
very elegante....

hey but thats what I do across the parking lot to my car. quick push and off down the hill i go. wwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Dora-Satya Veda]

hey but thats what I do across the parking lot to my car. quick push and off down the hill i go. wwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

My dear, that doesn't help your posture.

[emeralddancer]

hey but thats what I do across the parking lot to my car. quick push and off down the hill i go. wwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

My dear, that doesn't help your posture.

yes I know mom. really I do. but a spot of fun now and again ....

anyway ... i really am trying to mentally picture this. but whatever reason (brain fart, mind melt, whatever) I am stuck at the moment. However ever working on becoming unglued.

[pruthe]

It might be an idea to go grocery shopping and use a cart for the groceries . Study what you do while walking with the cart . Somehow most people stand and walk with great posture when doing that (unless you do what my brother used to do by using the cart to hang on and wheel around the store ). It always amazes me how well people seem to be able to do that with no problem and they get a partner in front of them and they totally freak out .

Dora-Satya Veda

To expand the grocery cart concept a bit more, in the other dance forum there was a recent thread that discussed how the follower could be thought of as being like a grocery cart when dancing. The leader would move the follower through his contact points as if he was moving a grocery cart. The follower would not move her cart until the lead invited her to do so (i.e. started shopping). Does this seem like a good analogy to use for lead and follow? I know it sounds kind of crude, but is it effective? Maybe should bring in some grocery carts to studio and practice moving them about :-)

[Dora-Satya Veda]

To expand the grocery cart concept a bit more, in the other dance forum there was a recent thread that discussed how the follower could be thought of as being like a grocery cart when dancing. The leader would move the follower through his contact points as if he was moving a grocery cart. The follower would not move her cart until the lead invited her to do so (i.e. started shopping). Does this seem like a good analogy to use for lead and follow? I know it sounds kind of crude, but is it effective? Maybe should bring in some grocery carts to studio and practice moving them about :-)

Yes, I would say that both the man and the lady need to be well versed in going shopping with a grocery cart . No joking aside.

This analogy works for both dancers in the partnership. My teacher used an office chair on wheels in the studio to explain the workings of the principle. We were then given the homework to go shopping in Sainsbury (grocery store in England).

Now talking about a perfect studio, it would be a perfect dance studio, if they had a grocery cart right there. That means the student could do their homework right there under the watchful eye of the teacher.

Dora-Satya Veda

[Some guy]

Dora-Satya Veda, I need to make sure my understanding of the grocery cart is correct:
The way I'm thinking about this approach, the grocery cart principle only works if I try to maintain contact with the grocery cart at all times without using my hands.  If I thrust my hips forward and take a step, then my grocery cart will go flying and I will never be able to regain contact with it.  That to me is the wrong way.  On the other hand, I believe the correct way to use the grocery cart is to lift my hands away from the grocery cart handle, use my "center" to move the grocery cart, and more importantly, maintain that contact without the use of arms (or holding on to the handle).  Am I correct? 

[elisedance]

sounds right to me - unless you wish to reverse in which case your cart had  better have a brain too....

[Dora-Satya Veda]

Dora-Satya Veda, I need to make sure my understanding of the grocery cart is correct:
The way I'm thinking about this approach, the grocery cart principle only works if I try to maintain contact with the grocery cart at all times without using my hands.  If I thrust my hips forward and take a step, then my grocery cart will go flying and I will never be able to regain contact with it.  That to me is the wrong way.  On the other hand, I believe the correct way to use the grocery cart is to lift my hands away from the grocery cart handle, use my "center" to move the grocery cart, and more importantly, maintain that contact without the use of arms (or holding on to the handle).  Am I correct? 

Don’t make it into a mystery now . Just walk with the cart like you would under nice civilized conditions. You time the movement of the center, body, legs and feet perfectly with the movement of the cart. You are not pushing the cart with the arms and hand. The cart is moved as a result of the center and body moving. The arm and hands are moving the cart with the indirect power that is directed from the center.

If your timing of center, body, legs and feet is off and you are sticking your feet out,  then you will get blue, yellow and green on your shins. If you are pushing the hips, arms or hands forward the cart will go flying and you are no longer steering it around the obstacles.

Keep it simple and do what you see most shoppers do. Walk with the cart in perfect harmony. Find out what you do and what it feels like when you do it. Discover the art of walking with an object in front of you. 

Most people actually did this as a child with the “walker”. If a child can do it then so can you. 

Dora-Satya Veda

[Some guy]

Got it, thanks DSV.  I go OTT more often than I should.