partnerdanceonline.com
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
September 23, 2014, 08:20:06 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
A lot of people are visiting Smiley Smiley
Undecided Undecided but not many are posting....
please say hi Cheesy
116449 Posts in 1855 Topics by 221 Members
Latest Member: EVE_Dance
* Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
+  partnerdanceonline.com
|-+  Partner Dancing
| |-+  Partner Dances
| | |-+  Ballroom dance -advanced (Moderators: Rugby, cornutt, ZPomeroy)
| | | |-+  How do you move (swing dances)?
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 8 Print
Author Topic: How do you move (swing dances)?  (Read 9021 times)
Dora-Satya Veda
Gold Star
***
Posts: 6871


« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2009, 10:37:48 PM »

this is going to take some figuring out - probably with vector mathematics...

The vector mathematics is not going to be as easy to figure out and see as it is in a promenade. I am sure you will figure it out though.  Wink
Logged

"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 35002


ee


« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2009, 04:14:26 AM »

The trouble is that we have two beads of pearls each of which is swinging with two axes (spots above the head) - and one point in common (sternum).  My brain hurts - the only solutions I can get is either the two people occupy the same physical space (which is impossible) or the axes (top of heads) move towards and away from each other - or the point of contact (sternum) slides.... none of which seem to be right....
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Dora-Satya Veda
Gold Star
***
Posts: 6871


« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2009, 12:05:25 PM »

The trouble is that we have two beads of pearls each of which is swinging with two axes (spots above the head) - and one point in common (sternum).  My brain hurts - the only solutions I can get is either the two people occupy the same physical space (which is impossible) or the axes (top of heads) move towards and away from each other - or the point of contact (sternum) slides.... none of which seem to be right....

Boy can you make it sound complicated. I didn’t know it was that complicated. This concept is really quit easy, when you understand the basic idea of what a swing is (which you do) and the difference between pendulum and metronome swing (which you also understand). You just need to get simpler in your thought process. Wink Remember we dancers are not scientists; we are just simple folk with average brain function.  Wink


The common string of pearls is really controlled by the man. When the man swings his head and ribcage, it will/should course the ladies to swing her hips. From the man’s head to the ladies hips should be one line, one pendulum swing of which the ladies hips is at the bottom of the arch. Because her hips is at the bottom they will have a huge swing and because her hips needs to be timed with the man’s head and ribcage swing, her hips will move really fast.

The lady’s individual string of pearls will change its fixed point depending on the step and the top-line that is wanted. So, sometimes the fixed point will be above the head and the sternum has the big arch and sometimes the sternum is fixed and the head has the big arch.

I hope this makes it clear for you. Smiley

Dora-Satya Veda

Logged

"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 35002


ee


« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2009, 04:46:08 PM »

terrific - thats what I wanted and that fits with what I am now feeling.  The connection is really not through the sternum, even if that is a point of contact - the connection is through the base of the spine.  This revelation has changed how I walk and think of my body, let alone how I dance... Its making sense now of how I see top dancers move - I'm going to be quite a different 'dance watcher' as well as dancer...

tres exciting Smiley
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
TangoDancer
Open Bronze
*
Posts: 736



« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2009, 01:21:58 AM »

Hmmm....if I may..........

First we ask, is this a push dance or a pull dance? Every dance is one or the other. If the teacher tells you to step forward with the left foot, he/she hasn't done a well job. You stand there not knowing whether to place the weight to the R and push to the L; place the L forward and pull the weight onto it; or, pick up the L and place it down afront of you (unlikely in dance). Of course, we all know that swing is a pull dance.

What we might forget is that we dance swing with a relaxed core because it is the core that evntually effects the swing, and it can not if we hold it tensed. The triplet is step-pull-step, and with a latin type action, we allow the hips to "swing" out from the weight shift that happens by straightening the leg. Same on the other side. Then dance a rumba rock step.

Hope this isn't taking the thread into a too technical place. Actually, it's an odd, but often true, combination of the LB melding with the RB schools quite well.
Logged

The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
SwingWaltz
Gold Star
***
Posts: 5772


« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2009, 06:21:16 AM »

Been told that I should feel out of control during the downward swing of the waltz and regain control during the rise of the waltz.

Anyone else heard of this?

It is definitely a different feeling that I need to get used to. But it feels fun!  Grin
Logged
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 35002


ee


« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2009, 07:14:51 AM »

the downward swing is one of the collapses - as in the advanced foxtrot thread.  I'm not sure 'gaining control' is the best term though, control sounds too much like muscle tension.  more like reestablishing static ballance (as appart from the dynamic one during the collapse).  Hope that makes sense.
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Dora-Satya Veda
Gold Star
***
Posts: 6871


« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2009, 12:32:17 PM »

Been told that I should feel out of control during the downward swing of the waltz and regain control during the rise of the waltz.

Anyone else heard of this?

It is definitely a different feeling that I need to get used to. But it feels fun!  Grin

My main teacher use to say that if you feel in control, in balance and safe then you are stagnant. If you really want to improve then you should feel out of control, out of balance and unsafe and work towards being in control, in balance and safe. As soon as you get to in control, in balance and safe you should only have a few days to enjoy (2 days for me, because of the timeline that I told him to get from where I was to where I want to get to be) it, before turning it up another notch. If you are where you have always been and don’t change anything, then don’t expect things to change.

The down swing does feel more out of control and then anywhere else. It should feel like you are falling. Have fun falling. I love falling. It is one of the reasons dancing is easier then walking.

Dora-Satya Veda
Logged

"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 35002


ee


« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2009, 04:14:07 PM »

i'm not sure that falling in dancing is really out of control in the same sense as falling off a wall is... its falling with the confidence that you will not hurt because falling is the right thing to do - perhaps more like jumping out of a plane with a parachute!

Or am I off base DSV?
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Dora-Satya Veda
Gold Star
***
Posts: 6871


« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2009, 05:10:03 PM »

i'm not sure that falling in dancing is really out of control in the same sense as falling off a wall is... its falling with the confidence that you will not hurt because falling is the right thing to do - perhaps more like jumping out of a plane with a parachute!

Or am I off base DSV?

All my students learn to fall and how to make sure they don't hurt themselves when falling. Many students do feel totally out of control, when they first learn to fall. In ice dance, they also learn to fall. They have to learn to fall, before they are allowed on the ice. It is quit a sight when students suddenly fall in a lesson or when I suddenly fall myself. Many teachers and students that don’t understand are chocked, when they see us fall on the floor one after the other. It is great fun to fall when one knows how to fall. I would say it is like falling with a parachute. I love the feel of falling. I love the feel of the wind in my face. When you get used to it is almost like the feel of a roller coaster. 

Dora-Satya Veda
Logged

"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
emeralddancer
Intermediate Gold
**
Posts: 2979

Nottingham, MD (by way of NJ)


« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2009, 03:47:37 AM »

I am talking even before crawling  where do the move from??  Wink

but see this question was not actually answered and TangoDancer eluded to it. (or maybe it was - but I am just not seeing it)

Babies first movements always start at their core. ALWAYS. Everything about them. Everything is also in relation to the pendulum as stated. The counter balance. Probably why at first you see the rigid movements. But you can see it before they take their first steps. like when a baby attempts to roll over, there is almost a direct correlation to the pendulum. (their upper torso twists to say the right and their hips and legs are still to the left before they figure out to follow their hips in relation to their torso to get the swinging action to propel them forward to then next "step") their bodies are naturally predisposed to counter balance in it's earliest stages of movement.

Does this make sense or am I overly tired?
Logged

It is more important who they are as people and only then is it important who they are as dancers.~Marcia Haydee
Dora-Satya Veda
Gold Star
***
Posts: 6871


« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2009, 04:06:24 AM »

I am talking even before crawling  where do the move from??  Wink

but see this question was not actually answered and TangoDancer eluded to it. (or maybe it was - but I am just not seeing it)

Babies first movements always start at their core. ALWAYS. Everything about them. Everything is also in relation to the pendulum as stated. The counter balance. Probably why at first you see the rigid movements. But you can see it before they take their first steps. like when a baby attempts to roll over, there is almost a direct correlation to the pendulum. (their upper torso twists to say the right and their hips and legs are still to the left before they figure out to follow their hips in relation to their torso to get the swinging action to propel them forward to then next "step") their bodies are naturally predisposed to counter balance in it's earliest stages of movement.

Does this make sense or am I overly tired?

You are actually got many of the basic concepts of movement right there. Well done.

Yes, they always move from their center (core) or whatever you want to call it. They reach for things by pulling in their center and elongating their body. Perfect little dancer and they don’t even know it.  Grin

Next they learn to roll over using the concept of separation of upper and lower body. This concept is described in the “Rule of Turn” in the “Body School of Thought”. Again a action that make a perfect little dancer.  Grin

All through this process they are using counter balance and the basic understanding of swing. Another couple of actions, which make them perfect little dancers! Grin

I am so proud of you Grin. You actually got some of the fundamental of movement namely; Center, Separation of upper and lower body, Counter Balance and Body Swing.

The amazing thing is, they are doing so many things right and they are not even up and standing, walking, running or dancing yet. I guess, now it is to understand why many dancers that learn to dance as children don’t really know what they are doing. They have basically done it all their life and it is the most natural thing to do. They can’t imagine why you would not do it that way.  Wink

Dora-Satya Veda
Logged

"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
emeralddancer
Intermediate Gold
**
Posts: 2979

Nottingham, MD (by way of NJ)


« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2009, 02:36:42 PM »

I am talking even before crawling  where do the move from??  Wink

but see this question was not actually answered and TangoDancer eluded to it. (or maybe it was - but I am just not seeing it)

Babies first movements always start at their core. ALWAYS. Everything about them. Everything is also in relation to the pendulum as stated. The counter balance. Probably why at first you see the rigid movements. But you can see it before they take their first steps. like when a baby attempts to roll over, there is almost a direct correlation to the pendulum. (their upper torso twists to say the right and their hips and legs are still to the left before they figure out to follow their hips in relation to their torso to get the swinging action to propel them forward to then next "step") their bodies are naturally predisposed to counter balance in it's earliest stages of movement.

Does this make sense or am I overly tired?

You are actually got many of the basic concepts of movement right there. Well done.

Yes, they always move from their center (core) or whatever you want to call it. They reach for things by pulling in their center and elongating their body. Perfect little dancer and they don’t even know it.  Grin

Next they learn to roll over using the concept of separation of upper and lower body. This concept is described in the “Rule of Turn” in the “Body School of Thought”. Again a action that make a perfect little dancer.  Grin

All through this process they are using counter balance and the basic understanding of swing. Another couple of actions, which make them perfect little dancers! Grin

I am so proud of you Grin. You actually got some of the fundamental of movement namely; Center, Separation of upper and lower body, Counter Balance and Body Swing.

The amazing thing is, they are doing so many things right and they are not even up and standing, walking, running or dancing yet. I guess, now it is to understand why many dancers that learn to dance as children don’t really know what they are doing. They have basically done it all their life and it is the most natural thing to do. They can’t imagine why you would not do it that way.  Wink

Dora-Satya Veda


WOW Dora, thank you .... tuning in and listening is really making a huge difference and your conformation means a great deal ... especially because you make it so simple to understand and put into action. Thanks!
Logged

It is more important who they are as people and only then is it important who they are as dancers.~Marcia Haydee
Dora-Satya Veda
Gold Star
***
Posts: 6871


« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2009, 09:22:00 PM »

WOW Dora, thank you .... tuning in and listening is really making a huge difference and your conformation means a great deal ... especially because you make it so simple to understand and put into action. Thanks!

You are very welcome. You deserve the compliment. You were willing to listen and ponder on the words written.

When you are willing to listen, I mean really listen then you will hear great insights. The simples’ information often has the biggest information and impact. I am only confirming what you are saying as what you are saying are simple truths.

Have fun learning with the child’s mind and make known the unknown.

Dora-Satya Veda
Logged

"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 35002


ee


« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2009, 11:52:02 AM »

No dancing here for a week - but as the conference is about a mile away, I have been doing the next best thing (or maybe the same); practising my walking Wink 

My the object is to walk as effortlessly as possible and to explore the concept of swing.  For me its one that has been rather elusive - I think I am swinging but there are actyually many different motions that have an element of swing and i am pretty sure that the gurus here would find them quite wrong and possibly even destructive.  Hence my attempt to go for efficiency instead - how to move with the minimal expenditure of energy.

What I have ended up with is a very lubricated joint at the waist. A step is led by a rotation of that brings the moving leg-hip forward and in effect 'flings' the leg.  When I do this 'right' (anyone??) I start feeling almost like a model walking the catwalk.  Because my hip is brought forward I aslo end up with a longer step lenght.  This certainly feels like a swinging action but I would love some comment on whether this is correct.

Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 8 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!