Are good dancers born or made?

[ttd]

Thanks DSV - that gives must of us a lot of hope

Actually, its interesting to look back at the lives of those you knew at school who were talented and those who were very good but determined.  Which have fared better with respect to achievement (not necessarily happiness of course).  In my case its almost invariably the latter - I say almost because the truly talented sometimes do float to the top but I think they are more likely to burn out.

In my major (math), it is true that those who were very good and determined advanced further than those who were talented but didn't have the determination. However, it is also true that those who had mediocre abilities to begin with (as was demonstrated by the fact that they struggled with fairly basic math concepts before they were even done with high school), usually chose careers which didn't involve math.

I think other fields of study have same degree of self-filtering.

[Some guy]

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

? Albert Einstein

I think this speaks to DSV's statement of finding out what works for you.  The current slender body type is dominating the dance scene because force is the dominant characteristic of ballroom rather than power.  Static balance is the dominant characteristic over progressive balance.  Working against gravity is dominant versus working with gravity.  With all of those, the more slender you are the more of an advantage you have over someone that's much larger.  Case in point, compare Arunas to Massimo.  Massimo didn't let his lack of a Marcus Hilton clone-body affect him.  William Pino and Alessandra proved that you didn't have to be tall to blow everyone's minds in Standard.  Bryan Watson didn't do tricks and splits to look like other Latin dancers, but boy did he know how to use what he had.  These are all folks who realized they were goldfish, so they needed to swim, not climb trees.

[Some guy]

"Even at best, talent remains a constant, and those who rely upon that gift alone, without developing further, peak quickly and soon fade to obscurity." - David Bayles

"Talent is only a starting point... You've got to keep working that talent. Someday I'll reach for it and it won't be there." - Irving Berlin

"It's none of their business that you have to learn how to write. Let them think you were born that way." - Ernest Hemingway

"We are told that talent creates its own opportunities. But it sometimes seems that intense desire creates not only its own opportunities, but its own talents." - Eric Hoffer

"Talent is so loaded a word, so full to the brim with meanings, that an artist might be wise to forget about it altogether and just keep on working." - Eric Maisel

"Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard." - Tim Notke

"I've not been cursed with talent, which could be a great inhibitor." - Robert Rauschenberg

"Don't bother about whether or not you have it. Just assume that you do, and then forget about it. Talent is a word we use after someone has become accomplished. There is no way to detect it before the fact... or to predict when or if mastery will click into place." - Richard Schmid

[elisedance]

Great quotes!  I LOL'd at this one:
"We are told that talent creates its own opportunities. But it sometimes seems that intense desire creates not only its own opportunities, but its own talents." - Eric Hoffer

"Genius is 5% inspiration and 95% perspiration" is along the same lines.... OTOH without some inspiration, the perspiration of a cart horse won't get you far....

[drj]

I think you're over analyzing ...

Politely disagree. You said "do". TTD said "absorb skills". They are different, and I'm not over analyzing.
[quote['minimal training' means learning - so someone that learns things faster is common to both. 
[/quote]

You did add "with minimal training" and I'd have to be an idiot not to have noticed that disclaimer, but your emphasis was on Do. TTD's was on working very, very hard. Those emphases are different.

BTW, I'm with you. Do, with minimal training: that's talent. Learning something quickly *is* do, with minimal training. Doing that, and working very, very hard, will bring great success, but it is not talent. It is applied talent.

Color me pedantic.

[elisedance]

I think you're over analyzing ...

Politely disagree. You said "do". TTD said "absorb skills". They are different, and I'm not over analyzing.
[quote['minimal training' means learning - so someone that learns things faster is common to both. 

You did add "with minimal training" and I'd have to be an idiot not to have noticed that disclaimer, but your emphasis was on Do. TTD's was on working very, very hard. Those emphases are different.

BTW, I'm with you. Do, with minimal training: that's talent. Learning something quickly *is* do, with minimal training. Doing that, and working very, very hard, will bring great success, but it is not talent. It is applied talent.

Color me pedantic.

[/quote]



If you were a biologist you would be on the 'splitters' and not the 'lumpers' team

[phoenix13]

I'm with ttd.I think that good dancers (or anything else) are born AND made.  A natural affinity for whatever the discipline definitely helps,but nobody excels without a lot of hard wor.

My $0.02.

[elisedance]

I'm with ttd.I think that good dancers (or anything else) are born AND made.  A natural affinity for whatever the discipline definitely helps,but nobody excels without a lot of hard wor.

My $0.02.

certainly can't get anywhere with at least a bit of both   But a lot of hard workers out perform a lot of high talented dancers (or anything else).  One reason is that the talented dancer can coast until they hit a brick wall at the limit of their talent.  They then have to switch to hard work and often give up.  The less talented dancer is used to working hard all the way through.

[QPO]

Of course you need both, you cant beat hard work, those that dont (do the hard work), dont hunger it enough.... and wont excel in the end. Northing in life worth having is easy and does not come without effort.

[elisedance]

Of course you need both, you cant beat hard work, those that dont (do the hard work), dont hunger it enough.... and wont excel in the end. Northing in life worth having is easy and does not come without effort.

...I don't know, bite into a bar of chocolate.... some of the greatest pleasures take virtually no effort at all.  How about a walk in the woods?  A kiss? The sound of a waterfall....

[phoenix13]

Of course you need both, you cant beat hard work, those that dont (do the hard work), dont hunger it enough.... and wont excel in the end.

This.  I remember many stories told by top level athletes in non-dance fields about incessant practice.  Even with exceptional talent, they practice,visualize,do whatever is necessary to hone their craft.

I don't think dancers are any different.

[QPO]

visualization is a great form of practice.

[phoenix13]

Exactly.

I think it was Michael Jordan (although I could be wrong) who talked about doing hundreds of layups before team basketball practice. This was not something required; it was something he did to improve, even though he was arguably one of the best basketball players of his time.


Drills,  anyone?

[elisedance]

...sounds like work

I think I'll visualize myself working out for a bit. 

[phoenix13]

There's no escaping hard work, more's the pity.