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Author Topic: Pro-Am - solving the practise issue  (Read 2686 times)
elisedance
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« on: May 19, 2012, 08:45:16 AM »

Pro-am has the big advantage (for the AM) of dancing with a fully trained (well, hopefully Wink partner and learning correctly as you dance. 

The downside, for me, is the issue of practise. In an AM partnership you take lessons together and then you can do virtually unlimited practise for very little investment - for example by going to a social dance that has space.  However, usually the only way to practise with a pro - is to pay for another lesson.  And if you are going to do a lesson then you might as well spend it learning, not practising (by the latter I mean dancing and trying to make it work rather than stopping and learning new stuff or correcting). 

I asked my pro whether he could get a junior partner who's job was simply to dance with us - but at a reasonable fee.  I'm not sure that would work of course since he would have to be almost as good a dancer but maybe a career-bound, cash strapped junior would do it?  I know there are all sorts of potential difficulties there - but has anyone come up with a workable solution?
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Some guy
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« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2012, 10:49:21 AM »

I think that's a brilliant idea Elise.  I think there's no harm in finding some sort of practice partner.
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ttd
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« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2012, 03:42:17 PM »

Nope, just increase solo practice time. There's a lot of things to work on solo. I know a guy who pays "lesser" female pros to be his practice partners as his pro's base is too far. But IMV that is just not worth the trouble. I am even questioning the worth of free practice partnership if I am not ever going to consider doing anything beyond that within that partnership.
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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2012, 03:56:31 PM »

Nope, just increase solo practice time. There's a lot of things to work on solo. I know a guy who pays "lesser" female pros to be his practice partners as his pro's base is too far. But IMV that is just not worth the trouble. I am even questioning the worth of free practice partnership if I am not ever going to consider doing anything beyond that within that partnership.

I would kill for a practise partner - as a follower any time spent with a (at least competent) lead is valuable and helps me to avoid becoming lead-dependent.
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drj
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« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2012, 10:48:01 PM »

I think that's a brilliant idea Elise.  I think there's no harm in finding some sort of practice partner.

<koff>
<bats eyelashes>
<ahem>

Y'know, just in case you're in the neighborhood. Keep me in mind.
Please.
TIA.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 10:49:38 PM by drj » Logged

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elisedance
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« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2012, 04:22:43 AM »

I think that's a brilliant idea Elise.  I think there's no harm in finding some sort of practice partner.

<koff>
<bats eyelashes>
<ahem>

Y'know, just in case you're in the neighborhood. Keep me in mind.
Please.
TIA.
Smiley
Cheesy
Grin
 Kiss
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The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
ttd
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« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2012, 11:05:00 AM »

Nope, just increase solo practice time. There's a lot of things to work on solo. I know a guy who pays "lesser" female pros to be his practice partners as his pro's base is too far. But IMV that is just not worth the trouble. I am even questioning the worth of free practice partnership if I am not ever going to consider doing anything beyond that within that partnership.

I would kill for a practise partner - as a follower any time spent with a (at least competent) lead is valuable and helps me to avoid becoming lead-dependent.


Why not then just go to socials and dance with everyone there (I am assuming people do mix and mingle in your area as opposed to sticking to their own partner)? That alleviates the issue of lead-dependency. Paying a junior partner to dance with you just seems silly. If he is of the same skill level as your teacher and charges less, then why not just compete with him, and if he is at a lower skill level, then he might not necessarily lead you in a way that matches well with what your pro is doing.
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elisedance
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« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2012, 01:31:29 PM »

Nope, just increase solo practice time. There's a lot of things to work on solo. I know a guy who pays "lesser" female pros to be his practice partners as his pro's base is too far. But IMV that is just not worth the trouble. I am even questioning the worth of free practice partnership if I am not ever going to consider doing anything beyond that within that partnership.

I would kill for a practise partner - as a follower any time spent with a (at least competent) lead is valuable and helps me to avoid becoming lead-dependent.


Why not then just go to socials and dance with everyone there (I am assuming people do mix and mingle in your area as opposed to sticking to their own partner)? That alleviates the issue of lead-dependency. Paying a junior partner to dance with you just seems silly. If he is of the same skill level as your teacher and charges less, then why not just compete with him, and if he is at a lower skill level, then he might not necessarily lead you in a way that matches well with what your pro is doing.

Obviously social dancers where you are waay beyond the ones here Shocked  I did say 'at least competent' for me that would be a minimum of a good silver level.  They don't exist at our social dances.

My experience is that skill level is one thing, teaching ability is quite another.  And not leading me in a way that matches would be a good thing as, as mentioned above, its my job to be able to respond to the leads intent - not just my pros.
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ttd
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« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2012, 01:49:32 PM »

Nope, just increase solo practice time. There's a lot of things to work on solo. I know a guy who pays "lesser" female pros to be his practice partners as his pro's base is too far. But IMV that is just not worth the trouble. I am even questioning the worth of free practice partnership if I am not ever going to consider doing anything beyond that within that partnership.

I would kill for a practise partner - as a follower any time spent with a (at least competent) lead is valuable and helps me to avoid becoming lead-dependent.


Why not then just go to socials and dance with everyone there (I am assuming people do mix and mingle in your area as opposed to sticking to their own partner)? That alleviates the issue of lead-dependency. Paying a junior partner to dance with you just seems silly. If he is of the same skill level as your teacher and charges less, then why not just compete with him, and if he is at a lower skill level, then he might not necessarily lead you in a way that matches well with what your pro is doing.

Obviously social dancers where you are waay beyond the ones here Shocked  I did say 'at least competent' for me that would be a minimum of a good silver level.  They don't exist at our social dances.

My experience is that skill level is one thing, teaching ability is quite another.  And not leading me in a way that matches would be a good thing as, as mentioned above, its my job to be able to respond to the leads intent - not just my pros.
We have a few silver guys around, but that's it. I have no expectations whatsoever that I will be able to dance my competition material with anyone but my pro. But the silver guys can competently lead social silver material and that's good enough for me to practice my random following skills (although my pro makes sure that his students don't get too complacent about this). Again, I am not trying to make a meaningful partnership with any of our social leaders, I am saving that for my pro-am work. But I won't be paying a lesser local pro to just dance with me either. I feel that that is not the optimal use of my dance $$. For one, if something didn't work, I will never be sure if it was me or it was him. And if it is him - what, did I just pay to help him discover an issue with his dancing? When I don't have any vested interest in him improving - after all, he is supposedly just a warm body to help me practice because I couldn't get another lesson with the pro I compete with? So, no way.
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elisedance
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« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2012, 08:11:39 PM »

You are lucky - any silver guys here and I would snap them up for an am partner!!
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
phoenix13
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« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2013, 01:45:02 PM »

I think it's a great idea.  The only question  I have is whether any dance teacher would be willing to accept fees that were discounted enough to make it worth your while.  IM (admittedly limited) E, the rates for a beginner teacher really aren't that much less than for a really, really good teacher. 
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elisedance
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« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2013, 02:51:57 PM »

I think it's a great idea.  The only question  I have is whether any dance teacher would be willing to accept fees that were discounted enough to make it worth your while.  IM (admittedly limited) E, the rates for a beginner teacher really aren't that much less than for a really, really good teacher. 

true, to an extent.  I think you can find beginning teachers at ~$30-40 for practise
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The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
phoenix13
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« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2013, 03:00:14 PM »

The pricing structure is different here.  Many "beginning" teachers are in the franchise studio system, where they cost just as much as experienced teachers, much of the time.  Independent teachers may vary in quality, but there's really not much difference in price, unless you're talking high levels visiting coaches.

Many beginner ballroom teachers in the US get their early training in the franchise studios' teacher training programs.
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phoenix13
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« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2013, 05:59:43 PM »

Didn't mean to kill the topic.

So, if a junior or trainee teacher doesn't work as a practice partner, who might?  And does solo practice help?
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elisedance
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« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2013, 09:26:01 PM »

I don't have an answer... the only faint advantage is that the lesson IS practise and the quality of practise with your pro is way higher than with an AM.  At least in terms of the dancing.  It does not, however, teach you how to dance with an AM Tongue Tongue
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
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