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Author Topic: Waltz, when does the fall stop?  (Read 2175 times)
elisedance
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« on: April 08, 2012, 12:08:48 PM »

Lowering occurs primarily on the third count (or three-and) in waltz.  My question is: does it continue at all on the first step.  The reason I raise this is tht its something my pro noticed, that I do a little lowering whereas he wants to only rise.

I looked at this by myself and it seemed to me that to get an effective swing action you have to have a bit of lowering in the first step.  That feels natural whereas trying to rise immediately after lowring on 3-and feels forced.  But am I wrong?
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pruthe
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« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2012, 08:41:48 AM »

For basic Waltz step, technique book says:

Commence to rise end of 1; continue to rise on 2 and 3; lower end of 3.

Since rise commences at end of 1, you have half a beat or so after 1 where you're not rising.

Does this help?
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"It's not what you do, but how you do it."

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elisedance
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« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2012, 09:22:58 AM »

For basic Waltz step, technique book says:

Commence to rise end of 1; continue to rise on 2 and 3; lower end of 3.

Since rise commences at end of 1, you have half a beat or so after 1 where you're not rising.

Does this help?
It helps for basic Cheesy Cheesy But basic does not incorporate swing, and thats my real issue.  If you are going to make a big action on 2 I think you have to have a bit more lowering to get the swing working.
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pruthe
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« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2012, 10:11:11 AM »

Did you see vid Samina posted in another Waltz topic? Caterina A discusses lowering technique and maybe you can see something there that helps.

http://youtu.be/jun-WtpyixM

I still think should follow what's in technique book. Maybe others have additional suggestions.

C u. :-)

pruthe
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"It's not what you do, but how you do it."

"The Truth in Ballroom Dance is found in the Basic steps."

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samina
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« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2012, 11:27:08 AM »

Did you see vid Samina posted in another Waltz topic? Caterina A discusses lowering technique and maybe you can see something there that helps.

http://youtu.be/jun-WtpyixM

I still think should follow what's in technique book. Maybe others have additional suggestions.

C u. :-)

pruthe

thanks for pointing to that...it's a great lecture! it's still working in my mind and driving my practice drills... Smiley
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elisedance
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« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2012, 11:54:46 AM »

thanks PR... will look.  hi sam Smiley
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Some guy
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« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2012, 03:53:05 PM »

Lowering occurs primarily on the third count (or three-and) in waltz.  My question is: does it continue at all on the first step.  The reason I raise this is tht its something my pro noticed, that I do a little lowering whereas he wants to only rise.

I looked at this by myself and it seemed to me that to get an effective swing action you have to have a bit of lowering in the first step.  That feels natural whereas trying to rise immediately after lowring on 3-and feels forced.  But am I wrong?
Are we talking lowering or division?  In any case, have you tried swinging your hips like a pendulum to see what the natural action is?  Actually, you can just swing your hand like a pendulum and count 1,2,3 and see when your arm is lowering and rising.  Maybe your pro is feeling lowering because you're actively lowering as opposed to just swinging?  When the body is naturally swung the energy will always feel like a rise even 'though there will be the visual illusion of lowering first.  If he's used to a Body School dancer he's probably used to the fact that the lady never takes the couple down.  She only takes the couple up.  
« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 05:45:19 PM by Some guy » Logged
elisedance
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« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2012, 04:18:17 PM »

Lowering occurs primarily on the third count (or three-and) in waltz.  My question is: does it continue at all on the first step.  The reason I raise this is tht its something my pro noticed, that I do a little lowering whereas he wants to only rise.

I looked at this by myself and it seemed to me that to get an effective swing action you have to have a bit of lowering in the first step.  That feels natural whereas trying to rise immediately after lowring on 3-and feels forced.  But am I wrong?
Are we talking lowering or division?  In any case, have you tried swinging your hips like a pendulum to see what the natural action it?  Actually, you can just swing your hand like a pendulum and count 1,2,3 and see when your arm is lowering and rising.  Maybe your pro is feeling lowering because you're actively lowering as opposed to just swinging?  When the body is naturally swung the energy will always feel like a rise even 'though there will be the visual illusion of lowering first.  If he's used to a Body School dancer he's probably used to the fact that the lady never takes the couple down.  She only takes the couple up. 
New pro - this one is not body school Sad  I think he is more bookish and it may be a problem. 

I'll give that 'lady takes the couple up' idea a thought.  Perhaps I am starting my swing a bit late and reaching nadir just after three...  Must say I'm a bit confused again!  I think he is feeling the continuation of motion after the lowering on 3 as a further lowering ... gotta get back on the floor to figure it out...
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pruthe
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« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2012, 09:06:31 PM »


New pro - this one is not body school Sad  I think he is more bookish and it may be a problem. 

I'll give that 'lady takes the couple up' idea a thought.  Perhaps I am starting my swing a bit late and reaching nadir just after three...  Must say I'm a bit confused again!  I think he is feeling the continuation of motion after the lowering on 3 as a further lowering ... gotta get back on the floor to figure it out...

If new teacher is not of your current style, you'd probably need to understand better what his style is. Might take a while to determine and may be significantly different from what you're currently doing. I think you'd probably have to conform to his style of dancing. Maybe after time you'd like his style of dancing or maybe not.

My 2c. :-)

pruthe
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"It's not what you do, but how you do it."

"The Truth in Ballroom Dance is found in the Basic steps."

A.S.
elisedance
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« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2012, 10:12:24 PM »

hehe - I didn't really explain.  My new pro is the same as my original competition pro.  I'mback with Chris S.  We were both each others first pro-am partners - he went pro to put himself through college.  We won a schollarship event at the Classique and well, then I tried something else Smiley
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samina
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« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2012, 11:06:51 AM »

thanks PR... will look.  hi sam Smiley
hi elise!
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elisedance
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« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2012, 05:57:45 AM »

thanks PR... will look.  hi sam Smiley
hi elise!
<<hugs>>
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elam63
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« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2014, 08:57:17 PM »

One of my coach recently told me the lowest point is on "1&".
That makes sense if you are thinking about the actual swing (kind of like V-shaped curve). It only has one lowest point, not two. And the lowest point is the beginning of the rising point too. So you don't start rising on 3&, right? Book says: Commence to rise end of 1 which is "1&", then 1& will be the lowest point too.
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elisedance
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« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2014, 10:01:02 PM »

I think he's right  (and contrary to what I wrote above).  I don't think about it any more really, its almost as if waltz is actually only an upward motion - of course it can't be but that's what you spend most of the time doing. I'll have to give it a bit more thought..
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QPO
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« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2014, 02:22:50 AM »

there is a continuous rise and fall in the Waltz commence to rise at the end of one continue to rise during two and be at your highest during the commencement of three and then lowering again, hence it being a swing dance. there is momentum that assists you through this process.
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