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Author Topic: Beyond the career track, does 'Amateur' really mean 'rich people's game'?  (Read 2235 times)
elisedance
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« on: April 04, 2012, 11:23:54 AM »

Amateur competetive ballroom dancing - in particular pro-am - is expensive.  Rich people can afford it, poor people can not.  Is this the way it should be?  Is there any way to equalize it if not?
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QPO
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« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2012, 09:27:50 AM »


well I wish it would. I think chain studios have alot to answer.....it is a very expensive system....the problem is that is is a business and people are not going to work for nothing...not that it is what we want...but anything that is not a club base will be expensive
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elisedance
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« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2012, 09:33:32 AM »


well I wish it would. I think chain studios have alot to answer.....it is a very expensive system....the problem is that is is a business and people are not going to work for nothing...not that it is what we want...but anything that is not a club base will be expensive
thats true of course, but the way amateur is set up a poor outstanding dancer can not complete in pro-am. Period.  They can not get sponsored (officially) but I bet some of the comps pay their way anyway to up their fields...
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SwingWaltz
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« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2012, 09:58:20 AM »

Amateur competetive ballroom dancing - in particular pro-am - is expensive.  Rich people can afford it, poor people can not.  Is this the way it should be?  Is there any way to equalize it if not?

I'm poor, but I am in amateur competitive ballroom dancing.

I just have a lot of 2 min noodles.  Tongue
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elisedance
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« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2012, 10:47:57 AM »

Amateur competetive ballroom dancing - in particular pro-am - is expensive.  Rich people can afford it, poor people can not.  Is this the way it should be?  Is there any way to equalize it if not?

I'm poor, but I am in amateur competitive ballroom dancing.

I just have a lot of 2 min noodles.  Tongue
Its manageable in AM dancing - you get unlimited practise time - but its not in pro-am.  And one thing all pros agree on is that pro-ams should not be able to make money out of dance.  No way at all - which, since it costs a fortunte, means it has become a rich person's game.
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samina
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« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2012, 12:24:00 PM »

if there were more structured ballroom "social clubs", like i understand exist in eastern europe, i think it would be possible for a pro-am amateur to compete more affordably because better quality & training could occur at the club.
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elisedance
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« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2012, 12:37:41 PM »

if there were more structured ballroom "social clubs", like i understand exist in eastern europe, i think it would be possible for a pro-am amateur to compete more affordably because better quality & training could occur at the club.
Maybe - but the downside of such club structures, at least in some countries (england I believe, correct me if I'm wrong someone) is that you can not compete in ballroom unless you are a member of the club - which means fees, lack of (business) competition etc etc.  Its an effective way of preventing independent dance instructors.

It would be interesting to compare actual money spent by dancers in these different systems and styles.  But the pro-am would undoubtedly be the one paying the most - understandably because of the need to maintain the pro.  My point is that the system is also stacked to ensure that the pro-am also can not earn anything from dancing.  Which is why its a rich woman's sport.  Take a look; how many pro-ams of reasonable means are also national competition stars?  The ones I know are independently wealthy or married to major money.

Actually, if we could find one I would be happy to try to find out how she does it...
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phoenix13
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« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2013, 04:58:30 AM »

Hmm.  Another complex topic.

My short answer this morning?  Nah.  Who am I trying to kid? There is no short answer.  Grin  Right now,many pro-am competitors are wealthy, but there are ways to cut down on costs.  Also, the franchise studio system IS very, very expensive, compared to what have heard about the club system, but it's unlikely to change quickly because it's based on a completely different approach to a pricing structure that is based on the way many  ballroom teachers are trained, at least in the US. As more ballroom professions emigrate from Europe and other parts of the world to the US, things may change, but ... well. I said it was a complex topic.  Lots to talk about . )

All just my opinion, of course.
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« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2013, 09:30:21 AM »

My understanding is that the club system that people talk of in Europe does not exist or  there may be a few but not as any as people think. there are pros and cons to those  and often coaches become quite frustrated with the structure of the organizers and move on.

having had lessons in Europe recently I paid 50 euro which is about the cost it is here, on average there are some states that you pay much more. I understand people have to make a living but there needs to be a system where people just starting to learn can be taught by understudies of sorts to help keep the costs down. I am sure there would be more people go into it if the costs were lower.
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phoenix13
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« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2013, 11:08:50 AM »

Hmm.  I really wouldn't know except from what others have told me.  *shrug*  My understanding was that young dancers in training learn via group instruction, similarly to elite athletes in other sports (e.g. gymnastics, skating, etc) and that they are trained from a young age -- 8, 10 etc -- to become professional dance athletes.

Im not surprised that high level coaches in Europe offer lessons to visiting students. I'm sure there's high demand for their time.  I'm actually surprised that coaching sessions are "only" 50 pounds.  I'd have expected them to cost more. 

I was just under the impression that the club system was still there,for youth athLetes, at least.  Could be wrong. If it is gone,that's shame, IMV.
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elisedance
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« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2013, 12:08:12 PM »

Hmm.  Another complex topic.

Right now,many pro-am competitors are wealthy, but there are ways to cut down on costs.  Also, the franchise studio system IS very, very expensive, compared to what have heard about the club system, but it's unlikely to change quickly because it's based on a completely different approach to a pricing structure that is based on the way many  ballroom teachers are trained, at least in the US.


Sorry, don't get the connection: what is the (specific) connection between franchise studios  and pro-am competitions?
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phoenix13
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« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2013, 01:45:55 AM »

In additional to the people who study with indepedent instructors and who compete at "public" cops,there s a large contingent of pro-ammers that compete at internal-to-the-franchise, very expensive, closed competitions.

This topic has a BUNCH of tentacles, IMHO.  Cool
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elisedance
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« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2013, 04:34:13 AM »

In additional to the people who study with indepedent instructors and who compete at "public" cops,there s a large contingent of pro-ammers that compete at internal-to-the-franchise, very expensive, closed competitions.

This topic has a BUNCH of tentacles, IMHO.  Cool
Ah, I see.  Yes, we know about the closed comps but don't know that much about how they run.  The object appears to be to set a standard of dancing that is far below the general norm so that the franchise student can feel they are making good progress.  There are some plusses to this (for example for untalented or low-comittment dancers) but a lot of potential negatives - including the impression of running a con act...
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phoenix13
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« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2013, 05:27:34 PM »

Hmm.  The impression I get is that it varies. FADS, for example, has some very highly competitive studios from what I've heard.  Malakawa or etp could probably or another FADS person could probably add more detail.
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elisedance
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« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2013, 08:36:18 PM »

Definitely.  Some have absolutely top level coaches that compete internationally too.
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
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