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elisedance
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ee


« on: February 06, 2012, 06:13:42 AM »

I'm biting the bullet: AM comp does not appear to be in the stars for me for now - today I try out with a pro-am partner.  He's a terrific dancer and I've taken lessons from him before.  Main issue?  His attitude - is this about making money or about competing as a couple.  There's the rub....
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QPO
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Adelaide South Australia


« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2012, 07:00:46 AM »

That is always going to be an issue. I think that you have to make sure you set your boundries. But never having done it I dont know all the pitfalls and issues.
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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2012, 07:34:51 AM »

That is always going to be an issue. I think that you have to make sure you set your boundries. But never having done it I dont know all the pitfalls and issues.

Pro-am pros range from ones that are trying to find every way to squeeze the last cent out of their client to ones that are trying to minimize costs so that the couple can become as successful as possible.  Also, there is a less recognized progression as the 'student' advances from beginner to advanced.  Some pro-ams are fully equivalent of open level amateurs and might even be competetive on the pro circuit.  IMO to reach that point the relationship just has to change from a formal teacher-student one to a partnership where one dancer happens to be a pro and the other an am.  Indeed, in many top-level pro-am couples the pro is getting just as much satisfaction from the dancing as the am.  After all, many pros in pro-am parnterships are past their professional competition years and nailing a top pro-am allows them to get some of the thrills and competition opportunities back.  Thus, a pro-am teaching relationship can transcend in to a quasi-full parrtnership .  One sign of this is when the pro-am couple going for coaching together: thus the pro is in essence admiting that the student has transcended his (mostly) teaching ability.

The problem is that a lot of pros are either not sophisticated enough to understand the changed relationship or (IMO) plain greedy and still expect the AM to bear the burden of all the costs.  They love the competitions, the victories and the opportunity to go out against champions - but the system is constructed that the costs for this will be born by the 'student'.  I say 'a lot' because there are also a number of smart pros that recognize the advantages they get from a top pro-am - not only the opportunities to compete as above, but also for the recruitment of more students. 

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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
elisedance
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ee


« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2012, 04:04:34 PM »

Well, so much for that idea!  Select Pro has decided to stop doing pro-am (too many new admin commitments Undecided ). 

OTOH (I feel like a tennis match) they MAY know of a tall AM or two....
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Some guy
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« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2012, 05:15:01 PM »

I know several national Pro Am finalists in my neck of the woods and I can tell you, none of them have that "partnership" dynamic that you speak of Elise.  Maybe it was a rare instance you noted?  Maybe it doesn't exist at the highest levels?  The ones I know of, if there isn't money being paid there is no partnership.  Period.  So it all comes down to the money, and always has, at least the ones I know.
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Rugby
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« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2012, 02:04:29 AM »

Well, so much for that idea!  Select Pro has decided to stop doing pro-am (too many new admin commitments Undecided ). 

OTOH (I feel like a tennis match) they MAY know of a tall AM or two....

Fantastic ee, fingers crossed for you!!!!!
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You have to fight through a lot of crap before you find your way up out of the toilet. Sometimes I think I have a good hold on the rim then I slip back in.  Each time I don't sink quite as deep though. - Rugby
elisedance
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ee


« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2012, 04:22:27 AM »

I know several national Pro Am finalists in my neck of the woods and I can tell you, none of them have that "partnership" dynamic that you speak of Elise.  Maybe it was a rare instance you noted?  Maybe it doesn't exist at the highest levels?  The ones I know of, if there isn't money being paid there is no partnership.  Period.  So it all comes down to the money, and always has, at least the ones I know.
Well, I had it twice and both at championship.  Indeed, I would not dance with a pro for whom the dancing wasn't equally important to the money.  Not worth it.  I'd rather take up flamenco...
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Some guy
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« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2012, 02:05:04 PM »

So it's a personal experience you're trying to find again.  Fair enough.  I didn't know you had already experienced that sort of partnership, I thought you were under the impression that it was pretty common. 
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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2012, 02:12:48 PM »

So it's a personal experience you're trying to find again.  Fair enough.  I didn't know you had already experienced that sort of partnership, I thought you were under the impression that it was pretty common. 

You were right - I did.  But perhaps its more common with pros who have few Ams.  Or maybe its just my personal charm Roll Eyes Cool
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
samina
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« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2012, 09:55:11 AM »

Well, so much for that idea!  Select Pro has decided to stop doing pro-am (too many new admin commitments Undecided ). 

OTOH (I feel like a tennis match) they MAY know of a tall AM or two....

anyone else in your area as an option??
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ttd
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Posts: 631


« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2012, 12:13:00 PM »

I know several national Pro Am finalists in my neck of the woods and I can tell you, none of them have that "partnership" dynamic that you speak of Elise.  Maybe it was a rare instance you noted?  Maybe it doesn't exist at the highest levels?  The ones I know of, if there isn't money being paid there is no partnership.  Period.  So it all comes down to the money, and always has, at least the ones I know.

You're right in a sense that a pro in a pro-am partnership wouldn't dance with his am, no matter how advanced, without a compensation. However, a good pro cares about the dancing too and not just his paycheck.

Although, I disagree with ee that having an advanced am doing open levels has a considerable benefit of attracting more students (especially if he didn't train that am from a lower level). I would say having a lower-level students who do well is better advertising.

Another point. A famous pro already has the name recognition. Take our retired national champions for example. I know ams of both genders who drive 5 hours one way to take lessons from them, that's despite the fact that their city has some quite capable pros, who have good pro-am results as well and who are experienced highly qualified teachers. It's because those nationally-known pros are so recognizable that in order for another couple to beat them and their students, they have to be visible better than them.
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elisedance
Administrator
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ee


« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2012, 04:37:45 PM »

Well, so much for that idea!  Select Pro has decided to stop doing pro-am (too many new admin commitments Undecided ). 

OTOH (I feel like a tennis match) they MAY know of a tall AM or two....

anyone else in your area as an option??
Pro?  One I guess but he's just gone through a personal tragedy so I'll follow up on that in due course.  Else, noone that has the potential to make the finals at OSB.  And if that is a possibility its simply not worth the financial outlay.
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
ttd
Open Bronze
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Posts: 631


« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2012, 06:10:46 PM »

Well, so much for that idea!  Select Pro has decided to stop doing pro-am (too many new admin commitments Undecided ). 

OTOH (I feel like a tennis match) they MAY know of a tall AM or two....

anyone else in your area as an option??
... Else, noone that has the potential to make the finals at OSB.  And if that is a possibility its simply not worth the financial outlay.
One possibility to consider is having a long-distance pro-am relationship. Fly to NYC or wherever the guy you choose lives, dance together as much as you can over the weekend, then go back.
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elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 34896


ee


« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2012, 06:41:10 PM »

Well, so much for that idea!  Select Pro has decided to stop doing pro-am (too many new admin commitments Undecided ). 

OTOH (I feel like a tennis match) they MAY know of a tall AM or two....

anyone else in your area as an option??
... Else, noone that has the potential to make the finals at OSB.  And if that is a possibility its simply not worth the financial outlay.
One possibility to consider is having a long-distance pro-am relationship. Fly to NYC or wherever the guy you choose lives, dance together as much as you can over the weekend, then go back.
I do have such a possibility, and a lot closer than NY (I could take a train).... question is, can I get the incentive?  Perhaps if I could practise my violin on the train!
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
samina
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Posts: 1584



« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2012, 11:13:49 AM »

Well, so much for that idea!  Select Pro has decided to stop doing pro-am (too many new admin commitments Undecided ). 

OTOH (I feel like a tennis match) they MAY know of a tall AM or two....

anyone else in your area as an option??
Pro?  One I guess but he's just gone through a personal tragedy so I'll follow up on that in due course.  Else, noone that has the potential to make the finals at OSB.  And if that is a possibility its simply not worth the financial outlay.
What about finding someone down my way? There are some excellent dancers here...

Might seem a PITA at first, having to commute down regularly to train, but it can have it's upsides as well.
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