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Author Topic: Level of your social scene  (Read 5748 times)
Ginger
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I see what you did there.


« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2009, 11:59:51 PM »

They got a PF Chang's down there? :-D
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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2009, 01:48:19 AM »

Your much too kind! though i'm intrigued, how can you judge from halfway across the world Grin

Zac

thats my job...
Cheesy
« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 03:53:21 AM by elisedance » Logged

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QPO
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« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2009, 10:01:13 AM »

we are going to a more upmarket social night tomorrow, by that I mean the level of the dancing. It is quite interesting to see how people veer to like minded dancers. I get to go to another next week which is great also. floorcraft is much better than usual  and the music is great
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« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2009, 01:32:05 PM »

Sounds like you are going to have two good weekends of dancing.
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Everyone tries to rush up through the syllabus levles and think once they are at the top they have arrived.  What they don't realize is that by doing this it is like skimming through a book, you may get the gist but you will never understand the story.
QPO
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« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2009, 02:10:34 AM »

Sounds like you are going to have two good weekends of dancing.

yes and after two workshops today I am so enthused...even more than usual
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ttd
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« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2010, 11:40:30 PM »

Hey MusicChica, I'm bumping this up for you. I think this really relates to your situation.
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QPO
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« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2010, 01:36:24 AM »

well then I look forward to hearing what the issue is Shocked
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ttd
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« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2010, 10:45:41 AM »

It's this one:

Moving over from the beginner's lead dilemma thread, as it's particularly appropriate for me right now...


Quote from: ttd on March 02, 2010, 10:57:27 PM
Quote from: Some guy on March 02, 2010, 01:51:28 PM
That to me is "social dancing".  Everything is still correct, just not maximized to it's maximum stride.  Your lead is correct, your movement is correct, your technique, frame, posture, everything is nice and correct.  When you start to break speed records, that's what I like to call "competitive dancing". 

That's what social dancing should be. That's however not what it is in reality, and honestly I highly doubt that average social dancers care. Maybe it's a jaded view, but I sincerely think it's true. I've heard enough people say "we don't really want to get too technical". And since the customer is always right...


At my studio, we've got 2 main socials--the big one on Saturday nights (that C and Ginger have been to as well), but also a more casual one on Sunday afternoons that's more geared towards lower-level dancers.  For a long time my pro was in charge of the Sunday dances, which included teaching the class beforehand.  Well, I just found out that he was recently removed from hosting the Sunday dances because too many people complained that he was getting "too technical" in the classes.

It just burns me up.  My pro's one of the best at the studio and they just refuse to listen to him, don't want to know how to dance well...
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dancingirldancing
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« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2010, 05:05:18 PM »

Funny thing is I spoke to this dude who is really quite a horrendeous dancer why don't he joins the fantastic class that was offered before the social.

This class is not really geared towards difficult steps even though it is labelled advanced. It is more geared towards technique using very simple steps.

The response I got was that he thinks that he wants to dance to have fun and the teacher is not fun !

The turn out for this class is not high but the quality of participants are pretty good. Mostly competitive dancers unfortunately.

Yes ... also many ladies turns up at the social not even wanting to pay the $7 beginner group class expecting gentlemen to teach them how to dance.

Then wonder why no one ask them to dance for hours while the lady dancers who actually puts a lot of investment into their dancing can't even sit down for a song without being asked.
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QPO
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« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2010, 08:25:32 PM »

this has  always  been a problem and the School has to be in charge of its classes. If the class is meant to be techinical then the person coming along should be told well sorry, this is what is being offered in this class and perhaps you need to look at another group.

Unfortnately it is always seems the minority rule and the majority just seem compliant to go along with things.

It boils down to the school being cler on what it is offering and in the end people who dont like it will have to reaccess or move on. We can't cater for everyone
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Graham
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« Reply #40 on: March 23, 2010, 08:34:46 AM »

What characteristics do people consider to assess the 'level' of a social dance or a social dancer? I find it very difficult to do so.

A competitor is relatively easy to assess. They go to a competition and present their case to few judges and the verdict comes down in one form or another. After a few competitions the couple should be able to figure out quite accurately where they stand (taking into account the size of the competition - and size matters of course).

From my perspective factors easily seen are: -
Step level (BSG)
Presentation level (e.g. posture, frame, comfort)
Technical level (size of stride, hip action etc.)
Floorcraft (ability to navigate as distinct to floor etiquette)

However, my main criteria would be ability to lead and that CAN be difficult to assess. After all if it looks right how can one tell it is right (by definition).
I would think that, as one improves, all factors improve, but that is not always the case. I know several couples who dance open level steps with strict presentation and apparently good technique (with reference to what they have been taught, which may be different to what is by the book) but they look as if they are dancing next to each other rather than together - a fake couple rather than a real couple.

I would rather see couple dancing well together using easier steps (because that is all they know) rather than a 'competitive' couple showing off.

Having recently danced with a professional (instructor, don't know about competitor) they were excessively concerned with presentation/technique (it was latin - hip action) and often found themselves surprised with the next step (I dance eclectic to say the least, many variations rather than syllabus steps, but still eminently leadable/followable). This is a problem I encounter quite frequently (including national representatives).

This is why I say it is difficult to assess the level of a social dancer.

My assessment of a social dance level is a combination of the level of the individual dancer (see above) and the ease to which the floor can be navigated (the degree to which dancing (mine and others) is inhibited by others or the quality of the venue itself - slippy floor, pillars etc.).

Graham
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elisedance
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« Reply #41 on: March 23, 2010, 05:52:35 PM »

I think the topic is more about the social scene and less the social dancer - but you bring an interesting angle in (which we always like Wink ).  We see the same thing on the competition floor - couples who look terrific but if challenged with the slightest problem fall apart because they are locked into their routine.  Dancing to them is running through a set of predetermined actions.  Which is OK - I'm not going to judge what dancing should be to anyone.  But I think there is so much more to learning from the social scene - which means  being able to do simple steps well and then to add the complicated ones on top when the opportunity (space) arises. 
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ttd
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« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2010, 10:23:36 PM »

Yeah, I think it's more about level (or if you will quality) of the scene overall - like, how many good dances are you going to get if you show up at the social, what people actually do, or if you put those dancers on a competition floor, where would most of them belong. That sort of thing.
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Graham
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Posts: 38


« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2010, 08:56:13 AM »

I think the thread is a good one, but I do question where the assessment is coming from. A competitor who wants to practice, a social dancer who wants to dance or a socialite who wants to socialise? (I differentiate between a SOCIAL dance and a social DANCE).

If I may quote you ttd and ask further questions.

'level (or if you will quality) of the scene overall'
Surely the level overall is a function of the ability of the individual in that given setting. Social is very much different to competitive in my view.
You need some measurement to be able to assess. An objective assessment depends on points YOU think are important. A subjective assessment depends on points agreed to by, at least, general consensus.

'how many good dances are YOU going to get if you show up at the social' (emphasis is mine)
That's a good point, and only one point amongst many. If the individual has poor floorcraft they are more likely to have a bad night. A couple with excellent floorcraft are more likely to have a good night (same venue, same time). Plus the comment refers to YOU. Are you refering to you and your partner exclusively or do you dance around and thus incorporate those dances into your assessment? Surely if you turn up before opening time (many places allow access early, some people get into Westway at 5.30, whereas the doors open at 6.30 I believe) you have a relatively empty floor. If you stay until the very end, again the floor is relatively empty. So you should be able to get in at least an hour of empty floor if that is what it takes to give you the opportunity to get a 'good dance' (and what is a good dance anyway?).

'if you put those dancers on a competition floor, where would most of them belong'
Given that the discussion was about the social scene, why would you introduce the assessment point of competitive ability? Having seen many thousands of couples 'practicing' their routine on a social floor and having all sorts of problems, the question has often been asked - Why are they here?'. Surely they would be better off on a practice floor of some description (on a practice night, or rent their own place for example).

My instructor, last night, stated that I have one of the best leads that he has seen. However if I was competing he would place me at pre-champ level. I am known to have excellent floorcraft, people have asked where I develop the 'radar', how did I know someone had moved into the space behind me, how did I stop in sucha  short space.
My skillset has been refined for the social scene and so my assessment of another dancer would be relevant to social and not competitive.

Thank you, in advance, for you consideration of my questions. I realise that some points may be considered a little contentious. Such it not my intent.

Graham
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ttd
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« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2010, 10:33:31 AM »

I am looking at this from a perspective of an experienced follower, who does not have an amateur partner for social dancing. When I come to a party, I can follow most leaders who ask me (especially if I lower my expectations about the quality of their leading). However, being able to follow does not necessarily result in an enjoyable dance for me. For example, I can follow "fwd-fwd-side-together" repeated until the end of the song from a newbie lead. I will smile, be supportive and encouraging and he will have a good experience. But that does not count as a good dance for me, because I am capable of a lot more. My best dances are with my friends who have been dancing for a while or the teachers, because I didn't just follow them, they also gave me an opportunity to put more of myself into the dance compared to a newer lead. Also, since I don't have a partner and the scene has a surplus of followers and I don't like to do the asking, I get to sit out a lot. When I do so, I watch people dance, and I can tell, because I have been dancing long enough, who looks good and who does not. My measure of this is "if this couple was transported to a competition floor, would they look out of place in pre-bronze? bronze? maybe silver?" For most local couples, the cut-off is bronze (with exception of the little competitive circle of friends, who does mainly silver).
« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 10:35:12 AM by ttd » Logged
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