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Author Topic: The woman dances to make the man look good; the man does the same.  (Read 2005 times)
elisedance
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ee


« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2011, 08:11:11 PM »

As far as I am aware, only argentine tango offers the same lead-follow AND close body combination that Int Standard does.  But the latter only works if both partners do it 'right'...
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Some guy
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« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2011, 05:09:59 PM »

You're correct Elise, Argentine Tango and Int. Standard does have a close body advantage, but a good lead can and should be able to make a lady do anything, be it Swing, West Coast Swing, Latin, Smooth, etc...
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Alice
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 149



« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2011, 05:40:28 PM »

I think it's easier to feel/relax into that lead in standard than in latin or any of the more open dances though.  There's more room to get nervous when you can't see/feel how the lead is making you do something, or distracted by all the flourishes typically associated with latin for instance. 
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Some guy
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« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2011, 05:45:43 PM »

I think it's easier to feel/relax into that lead in standard than in latin or any of the more open dances though.  There's more room to get nervous when you can't see/feel how the lead is making you do something, or distracted by all the flourishes typically associated with latin for instance. 
I personally find it easier too, but it's probably because we were introduced to Standard in a way where we were made to feel relaxed more in a close embrace than a hand-to-hand hold.  For example, I know some folks who can follow Latin just fine and freak out when they get into a Standard embrace and can't be led at all.   
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elisedance
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« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2011, 06:38:36 PM »

Due to a couple of odd coincidences I'm being introduced to real lead follow in Latin.  We should have a topic on this  - almost all the communication is carried out through the one hand link (least as far as I know) in contrast to Standard where it seems the signalling is through every part of the body (some intended some not). 

I'm pretty sure I am going to be contradicted now and that in Latin there are forms of non-contact signalling that I am not yet aware of (at least consciously).

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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
phoenix13
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« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2013, 03:59:58 AM »

Funny you should mention  Latin. It wasn't until we got to this point that I reaized you were (probably) talking about standard -- not smooth, standard.

How does a lead dance to make himself look good in standard? If the couple is connected, I would think that, if he looks good, she does too.  Not true?  (Genuine question.  I don't do standard.)
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Dona nobis pacem.
millitiz
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 220


« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2013, 05:38:27 AM »

Due to a couple of odd coincidences I'm being introduced to real lead follow in Latin.  We should have a topic on this  - almost all the communication is carried out through the one hand link (least as far as I know) in contrast to Standard where it seems the signalling is through every part of the body (some intended some not). 
Which is pretty true. I mean, that is pretty much the only place that we have physical contact, yes? Grin

Quote
I'm pretty sure I am going to be contradicted now and that in Latin there are forms of non-contact signalling that I am not yet aware of (at least consciously).
This. At one point, I was pretty sure that my partner could read my mind.
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QPO
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Adelaide South Australia


« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2013, 06:07:35 AM »

a good partnership both make the other look good. dancing is about 50/50 in all aspects.
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millitiz
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 220


« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2013, 06:56:45 AM »

Funny you should mention  Latin. It wasn't until we got to this point that I reaized you were (probably) talking about standard -- not smooth, standard.

How does a lead dance to make himself look good in standard? If the couple is connected, I would think that, if he looks good, she does too.  Not true?  (Genuine question.  I don't do standard.)

There are a few things a lead could do - normally I will call it inconsiderate. I have to admit that I was guilty (probably still am) of some of them.
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elisedance
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« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2013, 06:57:12 AM »

How does a lead dance to make himself look good in standard? If the couple is connected, I would think that, if he looks good, she does too.  Not true?  (Genuine question.  I don't do standard.)

Best summarized by a statement of a top coach here:
"the man dances, the woman gets out of the way."  Arrogance has no limit...
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
elisedance
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ee


« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2013, 06:59:38 AM »

Due to a couple of odd coincidences I'm being introduced to real lead follow in Latin.  We should have a topic on this  - almost all the communication is carried out through the one hand link (least as far as I know) in contrast to Standard where it seems the signalling is through every part of the body (some intended some not). 
Which is pretty true. I mean, that is pretty much the only place that we have physical contact, yes? Grin

.. ah, but you forgot the eyes.  I've recently did a little latin with an excellent coach and vision is such a cruicial part of the lead/follow.

Can a blind girl dance open latin?
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
millitiz
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 220


« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2013, 07:12:21 AM »


.. ah, but you forgot the eyes.  I've recently did a little latin with an excellent coach and vision is such a cruicial part of the lead/follow.

Can a blind girl dance open latin?

Actually, this reminds me of one time when I watched a SYTYCD where a blind girl came to the audition... I don't want to sound mean, but it was pretty much a disaster. I mean, dancing is partially a visual art, how are you suppose to dance without able to see yourself? In ballroom, one might be able to get over it since you actually have another pair of eyes...

Having said that, I imagine that it will depend on the routine, and she probably needs a good lead Smiley...a lead that actually know how to lead.
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millitiz
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 220


« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2013, 07:57:49 AM »

Ok, I have to admit, I am not exactly certain how liberal this whole community is.

Since we are talking about guys making ladies looking good...

http://bestdancetribune.com/index.php/events/competition-reviews/22-why-i-believe-riccardo-yulia-are-the-right-champions

The author mentioned that the reason why guys nowadays guys wanting to be both the frame and the picture is because they are heterosexual. Her hypothesis is homosexual guys knows how to make ladies feel and look pretty/beautiful, so a lot of the top Latin guys were homosexual. Nowadays, the top Latin guys are heterosexual, and when they compete against other guys, they become very aggressive (kinda a male instinct), they want to out compete each others - so it no longer is making the girls looking pretty, but to make themselves pretty.
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elisedance
Administrator
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ee


« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2013, 09:03:29 AM »

Ok, I have to admit, I am not exactly certain how liberal this whole community is.

Since we are talking about guys making ladies looking good...

http://bestdancetribune.com/index.php/events/competition-reviews/22-why-i-believe-riccardo-yulia-are-the-right-champions

The author mentioned that the reason why guys nowadays guys wanting to be both the frame and the picture is because they are heterosexual. Her hypothesis is homosexual guys knows how to make ladies feel and look pretty/beautiful, so a lot of the top Latin guys were homosexual. Nowadays, the top Latin guys are heterosexual, and when they compete against other guys, they become very aggressive (kinda a male instinct), they want to out compete each others - so it no longer is making the girls looking pretty, but to make themselves pretty.

Sorry, but what rot.  Have you never watched a couple in love?  The man is strong but tender, protective and caring - which is about as masculine as you can get whether its a straight or a homosexual relationship.  If this is the new male insecurity I think its the end of dance.  But I don't believe it. 

Sure there are guys who don't care about the woman and only want to compete with each other, - see the 'man dances...' quote, but they don't score in my dancing book and they look like idiots next to a guy who has grown out of his adolescence.
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
phoenix13
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Posts: 3359



« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2013, 10:38:48 AM »

I find the idea that sexual orientation creates selfish dancer to be a bit ... different.   I am wondering, though, if men dancing for themselves is a relatively new phenomenon.  Or has it always been that way?
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Dona nobis pacem.
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