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Author Topic: paid amateur partners  (Read 2060 times)
elisedance
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« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2011, 08:26:56 PM »

I find it a little hard to believe that the gender imbalance in juniors is that severe.  Around here, from what I've seen, if anything there are slight more male junior dancers than female.  However, there aren't all that many of either and I think both sexes have trouble finding partners.

Hmmm.  So if I lived there I could charge for my services? Roll Eyes
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cornutt
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« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2011, 09:20:53 PM »

I find it a little hard to believe that the gender imbalance in juniors is that severe.  Around here, from what I've seen, if anything there are slight more male junior dancers than female.  However, there aren't all that many of either and I think both sexes have trouble finding partners.

Hmmm.  So if I lived there I could charge for my services? Roll Eyes

Well, erm, I... uh... did specify juniors.   Wink   Although you'd be surprised at the number of men here dancing in adult A-B-C.  In fact, at our recent small comp, there were significantly more male ams competing than female ams.
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elisedance
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« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2011, 09:29:23 PM »

I find it a little hard to believe that the gender imbalance in juniors is that severe.  Around here, from what I've seen, if anything there are slight more male junior dancers than female.  However, there aren't all that many of either and I think both sexes have trouble finding partners.

Hmmm.  So if I lived there I could charge for my services? Roll Eyes

Well, erm, I... uh... did specify juniors.   Wink   Although you'd be surprised at the number of men here dancing in adult A-B-C.  In fact, at our recent small comp, there were significantly more male ams competing than female ams.

Lets see, Air Canada, Alabama... one ticket...
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
cornutt
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« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2011, 09:35:30 PM »

I find it a little hard to believe that the gender imbalance in juniors is that severe.  Around here, from what I've seen, if anything there are slight more male junior dancers than female.  However, there aren't all that many of either and I think both sexes have trouble finding partners.

Hmmm.  So if I lived there I could charge for my services? Roll Eyes

Well, erm, I... uh... did specify juniors.   Wink   Although you'd be surprised at the number of men here dancing in adult A-B-C.  In fact, at our recent small comp, there were significantly more male ams competing than female ams.

Lets see, Air Canada, Alabama... one ticket...

You want Delta via Cincinnati.  Done that flight many times.   Wink
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Dancerette
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« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2011, 01:57:38 PM »


I can see why women would resort to hiring a dance partner, and can also see the benefits to such an arrangement.

Just imagine! A partner who would be your employee, one who would be compelled to see your point of view on how something should be done; no arguments about "I need more CBM coming out of that outside spin", LOL!!! (Ooops, there's a glimpse of how our practice went today Wink

As for a man hiring a partner, can't see it ever happening around my area; even the worst (in many senses of the word, blech) of the men seem to always be able to find a partner. I think women who love to dance will put up with a lot just to be able to get out on the floor.

You know what I'd do, though? I'd learn the man's part and dance with another female before I'd hire somebody to partner with me.

Hang on, you do pro-am aren't you doing exactly that?
I never forgot the 'I'm paying for this' aspect.  Thats simply a fact of the dance relationship.
[/quote]

I think there are big differences between pro-am partnerships vs. paid partners. The pro am relationship is one of teacher/student; the pro teaches and also competes with the amateur.  I'm not exactly sure how that works, but that's my guess. The pro would be the expert, the one to defer to re: dance issues.

The paid partnership I see as more am-am/ each being from similar levels, the paid partner isn't teaching or directing, they're a body serving a purpose. They would accompany the paying partner to lessons, but wouldn't be teaching them.
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elisedance
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« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2011, 03:16:47 PM »

You're right there is an implied difference - but I think its rather subtle.  Indeed, I know of several pro-am partnerships where the AM is the better dancer that doesn't stop it being pro-am, its not a requirement.  Some (adult) women use the form just as a way to compete and may get lessons from a tihrd party.  The only satisfactory definition of a pro-am that I can think of is of a dancer that is paid to compete with an amateur.  [By being paid to compete the payee is automatically a pro - and thats true both in Canada and the US where amateurs can be paid to teach (but not compete).] 

Some pros even use pro-am as a way to try out prospective partners before committing. 
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
phoenix13
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« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2013, 11:39:26 AM »

I'm not sure why, but this absolutely astonishes me -- not that the guys would accept cash, but that girls would be desperate enough to offer cash just to get a partner.

Exactly how good are these guys to make them worth paying a king's ransom ($10K/year plus costumes, etc)  sheesh!   As if dancesport wasn't already biased enough in leads' favor. *sigh*
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Dona nobis pacem.
elisedance
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« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2013, 01:41:48 AM »

If you are a highly trained ballroom dancer there are no guys to dance with so it comes down to a choice is simply paying a partner or not dancing at all.  Thats about it.  What alternative do they have?
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
phoenix13
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« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2013, 05:29:25 AM »

Oh. I understand why they do it. I wish  I could think of better alternatives. Sad
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phoenix13
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« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2013, 10:59:52 AM »

I've been thinking about this more and I like it even less.   When I think this scenario out to its logical conclusion, I can envision a scenario in which all girls who want to compete end up having to pay a partner.  Think about it.  (I assume)  girls justify bribing a partner because junior level male partners are scarce.  Makes sense.  But, if you're a scarce, decent junior level male dancer, why should you dance with a young lady for free if you can find a different lady to help defray your expenses?  Heck. $10K/year plus costumes sounds good to me.  And, if she throws in payment for coaching fees, all the better.  Grin

No matter how you look at it, the girls are in a terrible position and it just goes downhill from here. Sad
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Dona nobis pacem.
elisedance
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« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2013, 03:56:40 PM »

Fraid thats true - and also its really (young) amateurs doing  a weird kind of pro-am - which the organizations (which have strong rules agains this) turn a blind eye to.  It would be interesting to see if they had the same attitude if senior dancers started to do the same thing.  I think the pros woud freak out...
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
phoenix13
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« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2013, 06:45:08 PM »

Fraid thats true - and also its really (young) amateurs doing  a weird kind of pro-am - which the organizations (which have strong rules agains this) turn a blind eye to.  It would be interesting to see if they had the same attitude if senior dancers started to do the same thing.  I think the pros woud freak out...

As well they should, IMHO.  There's something distinctly creepy about the idea.  And, sadly, parents on both sides -- parents of the "pros" and the otherwise partnerless girls -- are going along with it.
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Dona nobis pacem.
elisedance
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« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2013, 07:56:45 PM »

Fraid thats true - and also its really (young) amateurs doing  a weird kind of pro-am - which the organizations (which have strong rules agains this) turn a blind eye to.  It would be interesting to see if they had the same attitude if senior dancers started to do the same thing.  I think the pros woud freak out...

As well they should, IMHO.  There's something distinctly creepy about the idea.  And, sadly, parents on both sides -- parents of the "pros" and the otherwise partnerless girls -- are going along with it.
Ah, but there is also often a corresponding need - a girl with wealthy parents 'recruits' a not well of young dancer from an eastern european country with benefits.  Meaning here money etc.  Its actually win-win as the girl gets a partner and the boy gets a start and eventually a visa.
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
phoenix13
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« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2013, 09:22:36 PM »

I hear you.  I still don't think it ends well, in the end.  Visas complicate things, rather than simplifying them,IME. 
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Dona nobis pacem.
elisedance
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« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2013, 11:06:42 PM »

I hear you.  I still don't think it ends well, in the end.  Visas complicate things, rather than simplifying them,IME. 
whenever other factors get in there - be it money ,gifts or love, it complicates things - which is why I prefer to keep all that out.  But sometimes a girl has no choice...

I'm doing pro am - so aren't I paying for a partner?  Sure, we stick a 'pro' label on and pretend its all one-way teaching but really its paying someone to have the time to dance with me.  Right now thats actually working pretty well for me - way better than the unpaid route!
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
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