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Author Topic: paid amateur partners  (Read 2080 times)
elisedance
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« on: October 13, 2011, 12:02:01 AM »

So I picked up an astonishing bit of info today.  I was chatting to a junior dancer in the changing room today and she mentioned in passing that partners were hard to come by and that 'some of her friends were paying guys to dance with them' and not onlhy that  but also 'paying for their costumes and dance costs'.

I was aghast.  Has it come to that?  Girls have to pay a dowry to get a partner??? And what does that mean with respect to 'amateur' status.  Is someone an amateur if they are being paied to dance with their partner?  Istn't that a pro-am??

Is this going on in older age divisions? 
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QPO
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« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2011, 02:12:25 AM »

So I picked up an astonishing bit of info today.  I was chatting to a junior dancer in the changing room today and she mentioned in passing that partners were hard to come by and that 'some of her friends were paying guys to dance with them' and not onlhy that  but also 'paying for their costumes and dance costs'.

I was aghast.  Has it come to that?  Girls have to pay a dowry to get a partner??? And what does that mean with respect to 'amateur' status.  Is someone an amateur if they are being paied to dance with their partner?  Istn't that a pro-am??

Is this going on in older age divisions? 

I have heard of similar things in china where ladies pay for the training of a particular couple overseas but when they come home they are at the beck and call of the lady and the male partner must dance with her whenever she fees like it.

A dancing gigolo. There are not enough men/boys prepared to dance and I think that it will be sing of our times. Not that I agree with it but what do you do if you want to dance and their is a limited amount of men out there... supply and demand and this is what gets dangled out there as a carrot.

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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2011, 06:30:11 AM »

Yes but how can such a boy/man be called an amateur? Shocked
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ttd
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« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2011, 11:03:12 AM »

I paid my son to dance with me as a practice guinea pig (see other thread in general partner dance issues), does this make him a pro? Smiley
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elisedance
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« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2011, 01:20:51 PM »

I paid my son to dance with me as a practice guinea pig (see other thread in general partner dance issues), does this make him a pro? Smiley
Grin I suppose it does, at least for that day...
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ttd
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« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2011, 03:27:57 PM »

I paid my son to dance with me as a practice guinea pig (see other thread in general partner dance issues), does this make him a pro? Smiley
Grin I suppose it does, at least for that day...

OMG he clocked in a whole week then.
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Some guy
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« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2011, 03:44:17 PM »

I think in the U.S. amateurs are allowed to teach and get paid.  So the pseudo pro-am isn't that much of a stretch.  Take the reverse: pros dance with some of their top students for free or heavily discount competition costs.  That's money the pro is forfeiting to dance with the student.  In effect, the pro is paying that money to dance with the student.  So does the student become a pro also? 

Get's tricky. 
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ttd
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« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2011, 03:51:12 PM »

I think in the U.S. amateurs are allowed to teach and get paid.  So the pseudo pro-am isn't that much of a stretch.  Take the reverse: pros dance with some of their top students for free or heavily discount competition costs.  That's money the pro is forfeiting to dance with the student.  In effect, the pro is paying that money to dance with the student.  So does the student become a pro also? 

Get's tricky. 
That's faulty logic. A discount/freebie is not an equivalent to paying money to its recipient, even if the professional providing it is losing money he could have gotten for that service. So I don't think getting a freebie from their pro (in form of a discount on competition costs) makes the recipient a pro.
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elisedance
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« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2011, 04:38:53 PM »

Even in the US an amateur can not function as a pro-am.  Thats still exclusive to pros (its the deep pocket Wink ).  I agree with TTD pro-bono is not equivalent to being paid - if it was it would be taxed!  I should mention that the sums I heard were staggering - 10K/yr!
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SwingWaltz
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« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2011, 12:31:43 AM »


A dancing gigolo. There are not enough men/boys prepared to dance and I think that it will be sing of our times. Not that I agree with it but what do you do if you want to dance and their is a limited amount of men out there... supply and demand and this is what gets dangled out there as a carrot.



Exactly what I think. They're not getting paid to dance as a "professional" in a pro-am sense, rather more like a prostitute?

Am I allowed to say that?  Shocked
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elisedance
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« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2011, 03:40:55 AM »


A dancing gigolo. There are not enough men/boys prepared to dance and I think that it will be sing of our times. Not that I agree with it but what do you do if you want to dance and their is a limited amount of men out there... supply and demand and this is what gets dangled out there as a carrot.



Exactly what I think. They're not getting paid to dance as a "professional" in a pro-am sense, rather more like a prostitute?

Am I allowed to say that?  Shocked

You can say it - but frankly, its rediculous in the context above. 
A gigolo was (is?) a male dancer who provided not only dancing but also sexual services.  I suppose a paid amateur could also be a gigolo but thats surely not what this topic is about.  Its also not about paid 'dance escorts' which are paid to dance with a woman for an evening.  That is now a respectable business.  What we are talking about is an amateur that is paid to be a full-time dance partner for formal training and competition.  Not a gigolo and not a dance escort.
 
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Dancerette
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« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2011, 07:21:24 PM »


A dancing gigolo. There are not enough men/boys prepared to dance and I think that it will be sing of our times. Not that I agree with it but what do you do if you want to dance and their is a limited amount of men out there... supply and demand and this is what gets dangled out there as a carrot.



 rather more like a prostitute?



Ouch.

I can see why women would resort to hiring a dance partner, and can also see the benefits to such an arrangement.

Just imagine! A partner who would be your employee, one who would be compelled to see your point of view on how something should be done; no arguments about "I need more CBM coming out of that outside spin", LOL!!! (Ooops, there's a glimpse of how our practice went today Wink

As for a man hiring a partner, can't see it ever happening around my area; even the worst (in many senses of the word, blech) of the men seem to always be able to find a partner. I think women who love to dance will put up with a lot just to be able to get out on the floor.

You know what I'd do, though? I'd learn the man's part and dance with another female before I'd hire somebody to partner with me.
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cornutt
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« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2011, 07:23:12 PM »

I find it a little hard to believe that the gender imbalance in juniors is that severe.  Around here, from what I've seen, if anything there are slight more male junior dancers than female.  However, there aren't all that many of either and I think both sexes have trouble finding partners.
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ttd
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« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2011, 07:26:01 PM »

I find it a little hard to believe that the gender imbalance in juniors is that severe.  Around here, from what I've seen, if anything there are slight more male junior dancers than female.  However, there aren't all that many of either and I think both sexes have trouble finding partners.
I see it the other way around here (more girls than boys), but there are so few of them that I think the sample is statistically insignificant.
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elisedance
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« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2011, 08:26:04 PM »


A dancing gigolo. There are not enough men/boys prepared to dance and I think that it will be sing of our times. Not that I agree with it but what do you do if you want to dance and their is a limited amount of men out there... supply and demand and this is what gets dangled out there as a carrot.



 rather more like a prostitute?



Ouch.

I can see why women would resort to hiring a dance partner, and can also see the benefits to such an arrangement.

Just imagine! A partner who would be your employee, one who would be compelled to see your point of view on how something should be done; no arguments about "I need more CBM coming out of that outside spin", LOL!!! (Ooops, there's a glimpse of how our practice went today Wink

As for a man hiring a partner, can't see it ever happening around my area; even the worst (in many senses of the word, blech) of the men seem to always be able to find a partner. I think women who love to dance will put up with a lot just to be able to get out on the floor.

You know what I'd do, though? I'd learn the man's part and dance with another female before I'd hire somebody to partner with me.

Hang on, you do pro-am aren't you doing exactly that?
I never forgot the 'I'm paying for this' aspect.  Thats simply a fact of the dance relationship.
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
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